Prospect watchers rejoice. In a Q&A with (friend of TYA) the Star-Ledger’s Marc Carig, Yankee GM Brian Cashman laid out in no uncertain terms that there are a few prospects who he will not look to trade for starting pitching help this season. Here’s the exchange:
3. Does much of that work the past few years give you confidence you’ll have the chips to trade for a pitcher?
I have enough chips. But if people want to demand certain bullets, those certain bullets I’m not going to shoot. … There are untouchables here.
4. You talking about your young pitchers?
You can figure them out. But there are certain guys. Like Phil Hughes. I said publicly I wouldn’t want to trade Phil Hughes. I stopped trade discussion on Hughes on (Johan) Santana because he was a rare, special guy. And he’s proven that out. He’s helped us win a World Series in the bullpen, he won 18 games last year, and we have certain guys we think are potentially even better than he is. That excites us.
Clearly, he’s referring to the Killer B’s of Brackman, Betances and Banuelos and the impression they’ve made thus far in camp. He may also be referring to Jesus Montero, in that the Yanks have seen enough strides defensively in camp to pencil him in behind the plate for the rest of this decade. But how seriously should we take this report? If for example, the Florida Marlins decided to make Josh Johnson available, would Brian find himself eating these words? How about King Felix? In both cases, I have to think the answer is clearly yes. Both pitchers are currently unavailable, so in the world that Brian is currently dealing with, he can say with credibility that his top three pitching prospects are off the table. He won’t be trading any of these guys for Brett Myers, and he shouldn’t. But he’s already offered Montero twice for elite pitching (Lee/Halladay) so it’s difficult to argue he wouldn’t do it again.
But while the Killer Bs may be untouchable now, these things can change quickly. A poor showing in the first half of the season from any one of the Killer Bs could hurt their value. Prospects are often like stocks, whose value can be high one minute and down the next, or an injury later can become worthless. Nobody has a crystal ball, but if a player has the ability to be a starter on a championship level team and be under team control for 6 seasons, that’s highly attractive. But you also have to ask some questions. Are the Yanks in position to win a championship this year? We as Yankee fans always assume they are, but in the middle of 2008 you would act differently than you would in 2010, when you offered Montero for Lee. You have to weigh these things on a case by case basis, for both the short and long term benefit of the franchise.
From a negotiating standpoint, he’s doing the right thing. Saying there are certain places he won’t go puts it into the mind of the other party that if he were to go back on that, it would be a huge concession on his part, and that no more concessions would be forthcoming. In the art of a deal, Brian is playing this correctly. Also, from the long term perspective of the franchise you’d be better off getting a less expensive rental option and holding on to these chips. But make no mistake, players like King Felix and Josh Johnson are elite, unique talents. Even in a best case scenario, it’s doubtful any of the Killer Bs would approach their level. So the Killer B’s are absolutely, unquestionably off the table. Sort of.
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11 Responses to “There are untouchables here”
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TIQ IQ
In Leo Durocher’s book, hne said that when another team inquired about a player and Branch Rickey said, “I’m sorry, but we’re counting on him to fill our own needs” then Durocher knew that was the player Rickey was looking to trade.
being a former pitcher myself i must say that manny banuelos is as polished a 19 year old i have ever seen and assuming he aviods future injury i believe he will be a fantastic starter in this league for years to come. [think lester with more polish]
I really don’t see the Lester comparison people are trying to mold this kid into…
Lester relies on a cutter and curve to be his main weapons off the 4 seamer and has only recently been trying to put his changeup more into the equation but he has never been as confident with it as Banuelos and it for sure isn’t his best pitch in the way it is for Manny.
Johan Santana light is the way to go with Manny, he may not be as good as Santana was for a short time but he has that kind of makeup and that kind of stuff.
People seem to forget that lester is a big dude, he is 6-4 and all man, he throws a good heater from the left side but that is about all that him and Banuelos share in common, Manny doesn’t have the kind of hard breaking curve that Jon does and he doesn’t throw a cutter to off set the 4 seamer (Banuelos throws a sinker as his other fastball).
I pitched dI college baseball and I have to say Banuelos has blow me away. In my opinion Brackman is not untouchable. He looks to me like he is a gamble. I would be extremely reticent to trade Bettances but for the right player (that would be a non rental under 30 #1 or #2 starter) I would do it. His ceiling is so high. his stuff is impressive and his motion is surprisingly fluid for a kid of his size. he is clearly an athlete
Banuelos is in my opinion off the table for anything under super eliteness. I’s have to get justin upton or lincecum, kershaw, lester, hernandez, johnson. the only guys i trade banuelos for are guys who are not available.
the reason isn’t his ceilling it’s his floor. I am absolutely one hundred percent confident that barring a serious arm injury Baneulos is not worse than a legitimate #3 ML starter by his 24th birthday. I would not be even remotely surprised if he was a #2 type and he is only a bit of development on his cu away from a straight up ace.
He reminds me of Hughes in that you have a prospect who can become a #1, but LOTS of guys have the talent to be a #1. HIs real value lies in the fact that he will absolutely be a ML SP. NO worse than a #3. A guy with a floor that high is freakin gold. as untouchable a prospect as the yankees have had since Jeter.
I like Brackman more than you do, but Dellin clearly has better stuff. Throws a very heavy ball, the kind that will generate lots of grounders and be very hard to hit out. All he needs to do is (to quote Jeter) throw strikes and work the lower half of the zone.
I really like this post. The “floors” of these kids isn’t discussed often enough, usually because a floor for a SP prospect is high leverage relief work. If Cashman sees Banuelos as you do, then he’s clearly untouchable.
I think you are rating Banuelos floor a little too high, I agree he has the highest floor of the 3 but I still think that he could fall to the role of closer depending on what happens with his velocity this season.
We have all see young pitchers lose velocity as they get more innings under their arm and guys like Madison Bumgarner likely will never throw as hard he did in the minor leagues again and that lowered his ceiling from an ace to a mid rotational starter, if Manny can maintain his new velocity through an entire season I will feel more confident in his ability to maintain in the rotation for the long haul. However if he goes back down to throwing in the 88-92 range then you may see a shift in philosophy and they may pitch him where his fastball plays up.
Nice. Some national baseball in March.
Buster_ESPN: RT @Ben_ESPN: Tonight on #ESPN2 #Yankees vs #Red Sox. Dan Shulman, Orel Hershiser, Bobby Valentine and @Buster_ESPN call the action
AndrewMarchand: Banuelos is starting for the Yankees against the Red Sox.
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We really need to stop throwing in Brackman with Banuelos and Betances just because his name starts with a B, it’s just like calling Bosh a superstar because he signed with Wade and LeBron he isn’t.
There is no way Brackman is untouchable and as much as fans seem to talk about him in the same breathe as the other 2 I don’t believe the Yankees do, Brackman has a lot of flaws and even though he may be closer than Betances he doesn’t have the upside that he does and I don’t believe he is the “pitcher” that Betances is. Even though both of them are more throwers at this point, I see more confidence in Betances to throw his change and curve and he seems to be more willing to throw a breaking pitch behind in the count.