Lots of opinions floating around the blogosphere.
Greg Fertel (gets the prize for best write-up and analysis of the night):
Granderson looks tuned for a big improvement a la Nick Swisher in 2010. From the Yankees’ perspective, how could you not like this move? They added a 29-year-old center fielder with plus defense and power who is only making $25 million over the next three seasons. Put his bat and the new Yankee Stadium together, and we could be in for some gaudy numbers.
A+ for the Yankees, who continue to show that they know what they’re doing. Not a bad deal for Detroit, who needed to save some cash. But man, I’m sorry for D’Backs fans, who just saw their team screw up.
David Cameron: (Fangraphs)
From the Yankees perspective, this deal is almost too good to be true. Heading into his age 29 season, Granderson is a legitimate +4 win center fielder signed to a bargain contract for the next four years. I ranked him as the 22nd most valuable asset in terms of trade value in baseball over the summer, and the Yankees are getting him for a variety pack of role players. He instantly makes their team better, giving them a legitimate all-star center fielder who should thrive in Yankee Stadium. For as much as the Yankees have a payroll advantage, they continue to win because Brian Cashman targets the right players. Granderson is a fantastic acquisition for them.
Johnny Damon (via Tyler Kepner)
“New York has to try to get better on every front because every team is going to keep gunning for them,” Damon said. “I think having a guy like Granderson, who has the potential to be a really good player, if you can pick up a guy like that and not lose too many people from your big-league club, that’s a positive.”
As unpleasant as giving up Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson is, the Tigers did manage to net themselves a handful of players who will be able to help in 2010. For the most part these aren’t prospects where fans need to hope that they pan out. The Tigers added a starting pitcher, 2 bullpen arms, and hopefully a centerfielder for the near future.
While initial fan reaction seems to have been overwhelmingly negative, thus far, put me in the ‘meh’ category as far as our poll goes. The plus side of the deal is that we, effectively, turned a reliever in Schlereth, into a starter in Kennedy. This effectively fills a hole in the rotation, at relatively little additional cost: Jackson is arb-eligible, but will certainly be cheaper than a free-agent. The negative side, is that we swapped about five years of control over Scherzer, for two years of Jackson – and, in addition, Kennedy has not exactly shown an impressive track record at the major-league level.
So the overall impression seems to be that the Yankees made out like bandits, the Tigers did well despite losing a fan favorite, and the Diamondbacks got looted. Curiously, we were hearing rumors earlier that the Diamondbacks initiated this trade offer. And in tune with that, I’d like to disagree with the claim that they got hosed in the trade.
Max Scherzer can throw the ball very well. He had a decent starting debut last year in the majors. However, everyone is overlooking the fact that he is considered a serious injury risk. He has a very violent motion across his body that has caused many to predict a return to the bullpen or surgery. While he is definitely a better starter than Edwin Jackson when healthy, he comes with risks.
Ian Kennedy is also underrated. His minor league track record is pristine, as was his health before his fluke of all flukes injury in the spring. 15 MLB starts haven’t been kind to him, but most of them came in 2008, when mechanical problems hurt his control and velocity. In the NL West, I bet he shines. But I’ve also always believed in him more than anyone else.
For the Yankees, they were given the rare chance to significantly improve their Major League team in both the near and long terms while not giving up any immediately ready MLB players. Austin Jackson may be a great prospect, but in the best world he’ll be about as good as Granderson is now, and the Yankees will hold Granderson for at least 3 more seasons. They did what they do best: leveraged a substantial budget to take a now-costly player off a poorer team’s hands. It worked, and we now have a quality center fielder in his prime for the first time since David Cone was pitching for the Yankees.
My last thought: I feel bad for Tigers fans. Granderson was a serious fan favorite, and the team was only forced to trade him because he is one of their only movable contracts. They are stuck paying 10 million or more to Carlos Guillen, Dontrelle Willis, Nate Robertson, Jeremy Bonderman and Magglio Ordonez, all of which were immediate dead weight on the roster after being signed. A friend of mine convinced me that a Miguel Cabrera trade is likely. If they do that, we should be on the look out, because the Red Sox could be interested.
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39 Responses to Reaction To The Granderson Trade
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TIQ IQ
Question: DO Yankees get to add 2 more players to their 40 man roster before the Rule V draft?
I’d like to protect Whelan & Duff.
I doubt it. Remember: they have the #1 overall pick. They’re likely adding someone to the roster in the Rule V draft.
They could add 1 if they want… right now if Wang comes off the 40 man then there would a total of 5 40 man spots left after this trade and Bruney. 1 has to come from the rule 5, 1 will be either Damon or Matsui, one will be Pettitte, one will be a starter and that leaves 1 spot left over.
It’s also too late to protect someone from the Rule 5. The deadline for that was when the Yanks added Jackson and all them. Adding someone to the 40 man at this point just wouldn’t make any sense.
“if you can pick up a guy like that and not lose too many people from your big-league club, that’s a positive.”.
that made me laugh! What he meant to say is “if you can pick up a guy like that and not lose ME from your big-league club, that’s a positive.”.
ha…exactly what i thought.
To me the Tigers aren’t strapped for cash because they are a small market or are falling are hard times but because they have a bunch of terrible contracts as you mentioned… You can’t have 5 players who are making that much money and can’t even contribute. Dontrelle Willis is a minor league pitcher at this point for some reason, Bonderman’s arm is going to fall off tomorrow, Robertson doesn’t know what he is a mediocre starter or a mediocre reliever and Guillen and Ordonez are shells of there former selves and really neither one has a set position that you would be confident sending him out to play everyday. They are stuck with most of these guys for only a little while longer though and with the additions they got today they should be able to turn this into team with real goals inside of 2 years.
According to Cot’s, Willis, Bonderman, Robertson and Ordonez all come off the books after 2010.
In Ordonez’s case, his 2011 team option automatically vests if he makes 135 starts or has 540 plate apperances in 2010 or if he has 270 starts or 1,080 plate apperaances between 2009-2010. As long as the Tigers do the smart thing and don’t let Magglio hit those numbers, they will get $52.5M in salary relief.
I don’t agree that the Tigers have any reason to trade Miguel Cabrera given that they are currently tied to $42.5M in 2011 contracts.
Why not include the reactions of the beats?
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/12/08/a-point-by-point-plus-what-comes-next/
I tried to use a variety of sources :) 1 Yankee blogger, 1 neutral bloggers, 1 reporter, 1 player, 2 of the other team.
One other thing about the rule V draft.If Yankees get a kid they want that the Nats drafted and traded to them for Bruney, say from the Giants, and Yankees want to put that guy in the minors, I would assume they have to ask the Giants if they want him back for $25,000?
The Nats in the middle doesn’t negate that rule, does it?
The Nationals will be picking for us and so all the rules apply as if we were picking the player because we are.
Whoever we pick with that number 1 overall pick will be on the 25 man roster all year… For the Yankees to trade Bruney for that pick I would assume they have someone in mind they think can contribute all year, I don’t have any idea who it may be but I would assume it’s a starter they can put in the pen or a reliever who projects as a closer but more likely a starter they can put in the pen.
No. Although the Nats technically still pick, look at this deal as if the Yankees had NHL-style acquired the Nat’s draft pick.
I like this trade very much (as I indicated other places).
I’m real curious though.
Cashmen recently said that he was focusing on “pitching, pitching, pitching, left field”.
Was this deflection? subtefuge?, misdirection to rivals? In this trade he gave up two pitchers, with none in return. Add Bruney and it’s 3 pitchers gone, and none added. Is he freeing up roster spaces for younger guns coming up?–maybe.
It certainly isn’t the stocking up on available pitching talent that his pitching…comment implied.
Or is Mr. Cashman planning more moves to keep knocking our socks off?
I think he is.
Fun, fun, funtime.
Granderson takes care of LF by shifting over either Gardner or Melky to the LF position and since this was the deal he could get done I think know he goes with pitching, pitching, pitching and you will see guys like Andy and Sheets become Yankees next.
Getting pitching doesn’t mean you have to add up a bunch of bad or over paid pitchers, Marte proved in the last part of the season and in the playoffs he was the first lefty out of the pen and Dunn projects as a better reliever than Coke does and Bruney was nothing more than a 6th man out of the pen. We basically just got rid of low ranking pitching, the best pitcher we gave up projects as a 4th/5th pitcher or bullpen piece.
Guys like Sheets and Pettitte aren’t looking to sign right away and this move was ready now, he took care of LF first by taking care of CF and will move on to pitching and DH in the coming weeks.
Just because he’s focusing on pitching, doesn’t mean adding another number 1. It could mean bringing back Andy and adding a guy like Sheets.
Which is exactly what I am hoping will happen!
CC Sabathia
AJ Burnett
Andy Pettitte
Ben Sheets
Phil Hughes
Joba, Mitre, McAllister and Nova all in Scranton ready to start if needed…
Jeter, SS
Granderson, CF
Teixeira, 1B
Rodriguez, 3B
Matsui, DH
Posada, C
Cano, 2B
Swisher, RF
Melky, LF
Gardner, Pena, Cervelli on the bench and possibly Hinske or Miranda or another outfielder from FA like Nady or Thames or someone who has pop off the bench.
The only real question mark we would have heading into the season would be the bullpen and even then there would be room for encouragement.
Rivera (CL)
Robertson
Marte
Aceves
Gaudin
——
Mitre
Dunn
Albaladejo
Melancon
Sanchez
Some combination of the above players will probably make up the pen unless we have a signing/trade or we are planning to acquire a guy threw the rule 5 pick we acquired but you have some guys in that pen who can contribute but I don’t know if I see someone I can trust in the 8th everyday and because of that you have to worry how strong the bridge to Mo is and how bad will you suffer from that especially with Mo being another year older.
Melancon & Dunn are apparently both ready.I’m happy to go with those 2.
Gaudin is probably the equal of Ian Kennedy right now as a starter and I don’t want either one as my #5.
Let’s hope Ivan Nova & or Zach Macallister is ready also.
Melancon and Dunn would do good with some more time in Scranton I don’t trust either one’s control and both have a long way to go before I would trust them anywhere near the 8th, I wouldn’t mind them being in the pen if we had 1 guy who could actually be a proven setup man but unfortunately we don’t.
McAllister needs some Scranton time because he hasn’t been above double A yet and Nova probably needs until the all star break before I would give him a start but both should be ready this year and you are right that Gaudin and even Mitre will be avilable to start early on in the season and if we sign a guy like Sheets then either Joba or Hughes will be in Scranton for starting depth as well.
They must be very high on Dunn. Or it could mean that their very high on Brandon Lyon and Mike Gonzalez(don’t like either of them) Or that a trade for Rafael Soriano is in the works(if anyone gives up anything of value for him then the GM should be fired)
simple fact is were subtracting Bruney, Joba, Hughes, and Coke from the bullpen. That puts a lot of pressure on Marte and Robertson.
Dunn has very good stuff and if his control comes along then he can be the full package for a lefty reliever, I actually do like Gonzalez but I like Soriano a lot better, you may see a trade where the Yankees agree to pay the contract and trade a nobody for him and that way they avoid losing the first round pick that would have come along with signing him.
Losing Bruney and Coke doesn’t do much of anything to the pen because Coke was a lefty who had a hard time with lefties and Bruney had made himself the last man out of the pen. Joba and Hughes were always going to come out of the pen and were never suppose to be there for long anyway so in the end the pen is as strong as it always was going to be and that is weak. I think we need to add 1 player to the pen at some point either now or during the season in a trade but just 1 player needs to be added who can take over the 8th for good and slot Marte and Robertson into the 7th inning which would really strengthen the pen.
Yeah the braves should be pretty desperate to move Soriano and must be really kicking themselves…… 7 million to Wagner 8 million to Soriano, and whatever they’re paying Saito, imagine if Gonzalez had accepted arbitration too………Soriano should come cheap in trade
I would like to know what happened to Melancon’s incredible makeup. I was so excited to see him come up after watching and hearing him dominate three levels.
I feel like Dunn is just so raw. His walk numbers in the minors last year plus what he did in September coffee, plus his lack of command in the Arizona fall league leaves me wondering about him. Converted outfielder made starter made reliever. More of a thrower than a pitcher. Great stuff, better than Coke’s anyway(a lefthander who gave up homers to lefthanders isn’t much use I won’t quickly forget those moonshots given up to Utley and Ibanez both lefthanders both got out in 2.3 seconds and both came after we rallied against Cliff Lee)
Love Robertson seems like a real Houdini plus the strikeouts are brad lidge prime esque
Marte paying him big bucks I hope he delivers always liked him when he was a whitesock
And I really like Kevin Whelan hope he gets a shot this year.
J B Cox seems to have slipped into a minor league crack somewhere. Maybe he died in a bar fight
Dunn is raw but he has a very good change and the makings of a slider to go along with 95-96 MPH heat from the left side he has a chance to be something!
Melancon is a guy I was really unimpressed with his mental makeup, the pitches looked to be there but he was all over the place hitting people and not pitching in the zone when he wasn’t hitting people, the bigs really shook him if it continues it may scare Joe and the brass away from using him in big situations down the road.
I like Robertson but if he for whatever reason loses his “late life” or the league catches up to it he is going to get hit hard!
Marte will be what he was in the playoffs, first lefty out of the pen who will mainly face lefties and some weaker righties.
JB has pretty much lost all his momentum and is rarley even being mentioned anymore as a Yankee prospect which is a far way to fall from the “next Huston Street”.
Yeah Robertson seems like the type that if he loses it… he’ll lose it quickly
Which is always going to be a risk with him… It may never happen but in the back of your mind as a GM I think you always have to be aware that he could quickly become no more than average.
J.B. Cox was discouraged by his dismal performance after his return from arm surgery and left the Scranton team. It isn’t clear whether he’ll return. No one regards him as a prospect at this point.
Hmm. One of these three is not like the others. Greg Fertel, Dave Cameron, and Rob Neyer. Which is it?
Thanks for the shoutout though, EJ, I appreciate it.
Keep writing posts like that and I’ll give you a shoutout every day :)
Get the good molina and put jorge in dh slot
Trade for Yadier you mean? Because Bengie weighs about 300 pounds has a horrific OBP. is on the wrong side of 30 and is slower than David Wells
Not to mention Posada at DH isn’t a very good offensive threat and is probably not as goo as Matsui as a DH at this point, Posada’s value still lies in him being on of the best hitting catchers in the league. Also Yadier doesn’t have a lot of pop and isn’t going anywhere!
Posada hit just as well as Matsui last year.
I’m not sure if he will next year from a power perspective… Matsui can hit 28 Hrs but I am not sure if Posada will be able to do that next year, I guess there is no guarantee Marsui can either but I don’t know how well Posada is going to hold up here at the end. All those games behind the plate catch up to you.
Posada is 3 years older than Matsui and I can see Hideki being a good DH for 3 or 4 years possibly but with Posada his window is smaller by 2 years probably, how long can he realistically maintain after 40?
Matsui was also able to sustain his numbers over about 100 more ABs than Posada had and Posada had increases in career numbers in AVG, SLG and OPS… If he had played more than 111 games maybe his numbers would have been lower, who knows maybe they would have been higher but Matsui proved he sustained his numbers through 142 games. Also Matsui hit .349/.462/.674 4 HR, 13 RBI in the playoffs and Posada hit .260/.345/.420, 2 HR, 8 RBI in the playoffs so Matsui was better latter in the season when it counted. Both are still good hitters but if I was choosing a DH for the next 3 years (I wouldn’t pick either of these guys) and I had a gun to my head I would choose Matsui.
Sorry in advance for the off topicness but would anybody mind if cervelli was our everday catcher when posada is gone and we just need a replacement till montero gets here then use cervelli as the back up?
The time between when Posada is gone and Montero is ready is 0. Frankie will never be the regular starting Yankees catcher.
No way Jobba or Hughes ever see the minor leagues again.If either fails as a sta
rter, he goes to the bullpen forever.
Romine IMO is the catcher of the future.He not only hits, fields and throws but the Pitchers love him.
I think you’re probably right, although I’ve argued that no one would benefit more from a few months in Scranton than Joba Chamberlain.
I think a trip to Scranton for Joba my be in order also. My take on it may be a little different though.
Watching Joba last year was hard, nothing worked for him but, (after seeing more tape of him) it looked to me as if he was working too hard. When he (or any good pitcher) is on his game, they are as a well oiled machine.
My thought is he; didn’t stay in shape, didn’t work on his other pitches enough, therefore lost his slot, had a tiered shoulder and couldn’t throw as well. In other words, he was all messed up, all of which was caused by not being in shape, the harder he tried the worse it got.
He has always had a weight and work-out problem, in 2008 he had lost a lot of weight, not so in 2009.
My bet is that he has been told to come to ST in good shape or else!
He has better talent then Phil but, Phil works hard at his game…let’s hope this year was a hard lession for Joba and he got the message…”It’s easier to get there, then it is to stay”!