A debate on another board got me going on an issue that’s a bit of a pet peeve for me, and that’s the Yanks and their excessive, liberal use of retiring numbers. We were discussing the ‘Great’ Roger Maris, and his HOF and retired number qualifications.
Great is a bit much. He was a very good player who had the good timing to have a career year during an expansion year. He should be remembered fondly, but he’s not a HOF player and I wouldn’t have even retired his number for the Yanks. I’d prefer we keep the retired numbers to HOF players and/or guys who are at the top of the CAREER franchise numbers lists. One great season doesn’t do it for me. Being a fan favorite is a secondary factor, but should be way down on the list of qualifications. I make an exception for Thruman Munson, however. While Thurman Munson wasn’t an all time great, his case was so unique and tragic I think we can all agree on retiring his number. It was important for the franchise to honor him and put that behind them, and he’s still popular with the fans to this day.
The Yanks went a little nuts retiring numbers left and right in the 1980′s. Of the list of retired numbers I wouldn’t have retired Billy Martin, Roger Maris, Elston Howard or . . .brace yourself. . . . Don Mattingly. Being a fan favorite and a very good player just isn’t enough. Retiring a number is forever, so the fans who loved Mattingly will fade over time and you will be left with a guy who’s Baseball card isn’t that of a great player. Mattingly was great for 5-6 years and has no championships. If he’s the standard, we could retire another dozen numbers of guys with rings. Charlie Keller comes to mind off the top of my head, as well as Tommy Henrich, Allie Reynolds and Red Ruffing.
Billy Martin was a nice role player on some great Yankee teams in the 50′s, and won one title as manager of the team. Sorry, that doesn’t make my cut, and I L-O-V-E-D Billy Martin as a kid and still do. Elston Howard was never the best player on his own team, much less the league. He was the first African-American Yankee, and while that’s significant historically he wasn’t a good enough player to warrant retiring his number. He played his first game with the Yanks 8 years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, so the trail had already been blazed years earlier.
It just gets ridiculous at some point, and there needs to be a more objective standard applied. Of the recent Yankees, I would have no trouble with retiring Bernie Williams number 51 since he’s so high on the team lists for Hits, ABs, Runs, Hits, Doubles AND he was fan fan fave AND he won championships. That’s it from the recent run, along with the obvious ones being Jeter and Mariano (who’s #42 is already retired around baseball for the immortal Jackie Robinson). I can’t argue against Torre’s #6 either, though since he’s said he has no plans to return to the Yanks and he’s persona non grata after his recent book, I dont expect it.
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Have to agree somewhat, but I have no problem with Elston Howard. He was the best “catcher” on the team and Stengel knew it. But he was stifled by the greatest and most beloved Yankee Yogi Berra. But he just kept playing and was a great teammate.
But the number I have the biggest problem with is Reggie Jackson. Reggie’s a true Yankee??? What did he do??? Hit 3 consecutive HR’s in a world series game? No wait, I know, he went into the HOF with a Yankee cap and a promise from George that he would have a J-O-B forever with the team. To me that’s the joke retired number. sorry.
I can’t argue much with you about Reggie, but at least he’s a HOF player who delivered them two rings. But I agree, he’s more of an Oakland A’s than he is a Yankee.
Torres’s # is 6 not 8 (that’s Yogi’s). I think his number will be eventually retired as he is getting in the HOF.
I agree with your list and would add Guidry there. I understand why Maris # was ritered back then, but Martin? And if Donnie should not have that honor neither should Bernie. From
This era only Mo and Jeter should get that honor.
You’re right, and thanks for pointing that out. You’ll have to forgive me, I posted this when I just woke up. #8 was Bill Dickey as well.
As far as Guidry goes, I have no problem with him. He’s very high on the franchise lists. At the time he was retired, he was #4 in Wins and Games started, and he’s is #2 in Strikeouts to this day. He was a great Yankee, so despite the fact he falls short of the HOF I have no problem with him.
I totally agree with you. Maybe they should retire numbers for a certain period, say 25 years, and then make them eligible again. For all-time greats like Babe, Gehrig, Mickey, DiMaggio you can still decide to leave them retired after that.
The thing that really annoys me is that the fans “retired” #21 all by themself by booing every player that wears it. I could see that happening with other numbers like 6, 46, 51 too.
I’m still so ticked off at Torre for the overly dramatic and ungrateful way he left the team, and for the fact that he’s still taking shots at them, that I hope they give his #6 to a really good prospect someday, like Jesus Montero.
Great thinking Steve…I like it!
Montero is a very fine choice for #6.
Joe T, was a failure as a manager, before he came to the Yankees…he didn’t lead them to WS Victories, they dragged him along. I have said this time and again; “He took over the team on the up tick, all he had to do is stay out of the way and let them win…Right place at the right time!”
When the team turned over and had to have a real manager…Joe T was missing in action.
“all he had to do is stay out of the way and let them win…Right place at the right time!”
When the team turned over and had to have a real manager…Joe T was missing in action.”
I agree 1000% O.R., couldn’t have said it any better myself.
Agree to some extent….but Mattingly? How old are you….Just curious because as a 41 year old I can tell you that for about a 10 year period he was the only thing about the yankees that was worth rooting for. That alone makes him good enough for me.
I’m 39 and watched Mattingly play for years. I think many fans opinion of him is influenced by the fact that he’s SUCH a good guy. But I’m looking at him as a Baseball player and trying to factor in how he will look to future generations.
When I’m 70, I’d have trouble explaining to a 13 year old why Mattingly has his number retired and Joe Gordon, Charlie Keller, Allie Reynolds, Tommy Henrich and Red Ruffing don’t.
When I’m 70, I’d have trouble explaining to a 13 year old why Mattingly has his number retired and Joe Gordon, Charlie Keller, Allie Reynolds, Tommy Henrich and Red Ruffing don’t.
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If you were 70 (which I am), you would understand how I feel trying to explain the greatness of some of the players of the past, for example; Reggie J compared to “The Mick”, Reggie is not even close. If Mickey were playing today, guys like A-Rod, Pujols would take a back seat…especially with the advancements in Med treatments.
My List;
Ruth, Gehrig, Dickey, Yogi, DiMaggio, Mantle, Whitey Ford, Crosetti and in the future; Mo, Jeter, A-Rod, Bernie and Guidry.