Hank and Hal just looking to cash in... Courtesy of Getty Images
(The following is being syndicated from An A-Blog for A-Rod)
While most of the baseball world was buzzing about the Josh Hamilton signing yesterday afternoon, there was a significant development in the Ichiro Suzuki case, one that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for the Yankees in terms of how they’ve approached and executed their offseason plan to date. After multiple reports of Ichiro receiving 2-year offers from other teams came out, Joel Sherman reported that the Yankees were “resigned” to the fact that they now HAD to make a guaranteed 2-year offer as well in order to bring Ichiro back. I know this isn’t going to sit well with my man James on the AB4AR Page, but that line of thinking and decision making by the Yankee brass is questionable at best, and borderline ludicrous at worst.
First of all, the Yankees aren’t resigned to anything. They’ve put themselves in a position where they don’t have as many options available to them to replace Nick Swisher in right field, at least not within the constraints they’ve set for themselves. But it’s not like Ichiro is the ONLY right fielder available and he’s certainly not the best outfielder available.
To that point, the whole idea of breaking the “1-year contracts only” rule for Ichiro, a 39-year-old player clearly in decline and who may be best suited as a part-time platoon player, is where the train really goes off the tracks. His .342 wOBA in 67 games with the Yankees this past season was excellent, no doubt about that. But that doesn’t make the year and a half of below-average production before that disappear and doesn’t change the fact that Ichiro has been in a pretty steady decline since 2009. The Yankees could have retained Russell Martin, arguably the best all-around catcher available, with a 2-year deal a few weeks back and they didn’t even make him an offer. Now they’re willing to make that same 2-year offer to a player who’s probably not as good as Martin at this stage in his career and who’s definitely a helluva lot easier to replace than Martin.
I just don’t get it. The Yankees’ number 1 goal this offseason and next is to create and retain a high level of payroll flexibility to allow them to get under the $189 million ceiling. How does guaranteeing a 2nd year to what will be a 40-YEAR-OLD OUTFIELDER next season help that cause??? The boys over at NoMaas tweeted this theory last night and it’s a thought that crossed my mind as well- if this is about Ichiro chasing 3,000 hits and the Steinbrenners wanting him to be in pinstripes when he does it, then that’s completely asinine and probably the final sign that George’s boys don’t really care about the baseball side of owning the Yankees.
While I was always a bigger proponent of the Yankees seeking a younger, more well-rounded option for right field next season, I accepted the fact that Ichiro was likely going to be part of the Yankee outfield in 2013 once the Yankees’ offseason strategy became clear. And I’ve admitted that there are plenty of positives that could come from having Ichiro as part of the team next season. But him getting a guaranteed multi-year offer from New York over other players at more important positions of need, and better players who play the same position he does, is just not a good baseball decision and that’s a fact.
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39 Responses to Lack Of Logic In The Ichiro Situation
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TIQ IQ
Having been in denial the past few days reading about the possibility of this move happening, all I can type right now is that I am stunned.
Really tired of blaming the “Steinbrenner boys”, how do you know Cashman is not the one to blame?
Because he’s not the one writing the checks, or the one who imposed the 189 dollar budget, or the one who sent himself to the winter meetings with absolutely no power to make offers to any free agent or club. This is Hal’s team, go back and read his quotes on the 189 million dollar payroll “189 million is my goal, and my goals get accomplished”. Besides paying old, past their prime players is not Cashman’s MO. Brian was the one who advised Hank not to re-sign Alex to his mega deal, Hank went over his head to do it. Cashman didn’t want to sign Rafael Soriano, Levine went over his head to do so. Cashman wanted to re-sign Martin for 3 years before last season, I doubt he suddenly changed his mind on a cheaper 2 year deal this offseason because of a low batting average.
If the buck doesn’t stop with the owners why are they the owners?
Cashman’s MO seems more a product of what people want to believe than what he actually is. For instance, even if we limit analysis to the parts he has control his management has been underwhelming. The farm and player development have failed to meet expectations. Acquiring talent through trade has been too infrequent and unsuccessful (in albeit a rather small sample).
And to your money spent, Cashman has plenty of gaffes. I’ll see your Soriano and raise you Marte and Feliciano. To your Arod’s 250m I’ll counter with AJ Burnett and Kei Igawa’s 130m.
This is not to say Cashman shares the brunt of the blame for the… ummm… inefficiencies we see, but that he should share a portion of the blame along with ownership, especially when some of their stupid signings are a direct result of looking to shore up something Cashman failed to through trade and development.
Of course a big caveat to all of this is I SURE AM GLAD WE’RE NOT THE RED SOX, so I guess I shouldn’t bitch too much, I just wish we’d get more foresight like we did with the Granderson and Swisher moves than Posada to Martin to ummmm…
Cashman’s had his goofs, all GMs do, and he’s certainly been far from perfect in many ways. However successful or not he seems to have a plan in place, and giving multiple year contracts guys like Ichiro aren’t in it.
I think it’s pretty easy to identify a Cashman move, good or bad, vs those of others in the front office going over his head. Which if you start to think about it may be the Yanks biggest problem, no one man is in charge. The Yankees never seem to have one man with the power to shape and mold the Yankees into the future with just one vision. It’s always just a mix of 3 or 4 guys who all have varying degrees of power at different times, who seem to have 3 or 4 different visions for what’s important.
At times it seems they are going to turn everything baseball over to Cashman, then suddenly Levine can over reach him and do something he hates. Then other times it seems Cashman is being marganalized because Hank or Hal wants to play baseball owner today, it’s just a giant mess in the front office and that’s probably a pretty big part of the problem. Too many chefs, making too many different kinds of meals, for one diner which we have to eat.
Marte was a Cashman move. Feliciano was a Cashman move. Both were multi-year and I disliked each of them more than this Ichiro deal. I also find it a bit funny that Rafael Soriano ended up being a better signing than either of those guys.
I appreciate your “too many chefs” observation, but unfortunately Cashman hasn’t acquitted himself as the superior cook. He talks a good game but the results (and many of the moves) are similar to the ownership people who are so often vilified Yankee boards.
“Now they’re willing to make that same 2-year offer to a player who’s probably not as good as Martin at this stage in his career and who’s definitely a helluva lot easier to replace than Martin.”
Thank god someone on here said it! I figured the Yankees would re-sign Ichiro but I never for one second believed they’d do so on two years, it’s completely stupid on every level. You would think after the whole “Arod’s contract makes sense because he’ll chase Bonds” thing they’d realized giving out contyracts based on branding is the dumbest thing a team can do. Does anyone actually think Ichiro will be remembered as anything other than a Mariner? Are Yankee fans really dying to watch a broken down 40 year old hang on to chase 3000 hits? It’s getting really hard to believe in this team long term anymore.
The worst part is Martin would actually help the Yankees on defense, calling the game, framing pitches, in ways that adding 20 HRs would be an added bonus. Plus Martin still walks a ton and is likely for some bounce back in average as well, I mean would .240/.340 with 20 HRs next year really surprise anyone in terms of Martin? But instead we end up with Stewart, Cervellio, Bobby Wilson, Romine and Ichiro and we’re suppose to be happy?
I honestly could not hate this signing more.
what are you worried about you have Jeter! remember
Then again, it’s only 2 years, and it’s going to be a low enough number where he could be released if he gets that bad.
Except it dropped the 2014 payroll from 189 to 184, which doesn’t seem like a lot until you consider they have about 75 million tied up in Teix, Alex, and Sabathia. Re-sign Cano and now you’re down to 84 million in which to fill out an entire team for the next two years. Just releasing players with no remorse isn’t the Yankees luxury anymore, every deal needs to be done with financial intelligence behind it.
Signing Ichiro for 2 years would be just as dumb, even if the Yank HAD signed Russell Martin for 2 years. But, the comparison is grating. It feels like there’s no overall management of the signing process.
His point isn’t that the signing would be made less dumb if they signed Martin for 2 years. His point is they would’ve been better off using the Ichiro money to sign Martin for 2 years 17 million, then they could sign a 1 year stop gap like Schierholtz or Sweeney instead of Ichiro. Which makes sense because Sweeney or Schierholtz in RF is better than Stewart or Cervelli starting at catcher.
his point is silly. here’s no reason to think that the money given to Suzuki has anything to do with martin.
someone might actually take a moment to remember that the Yankees didn’t offer anything at al, to Suzuki until after martin moved on.
for better or worse, the Yankees simply did not wish to commit to Martin as their starting catcher for two years. they were perfectly willing to make that commitment prior to last season (offering him a three year deal) but soured on him
Martin is better than Ichiro, he will be much more valuable over the next two years. Finding Ichiro worth 2 years but not Martin says a lot about the front office, none of it good.
rather hard to compare them, head-to-head. Ichiro fields his position better than does Martin and is still a better offensive player than is Martin.
other than that, Martin is better looking
Re the Russell Martin situation. Since contracts are two-way streets, could it be possible Martin didn’t want to return? I’m specifically referencing his remark that he likes the Pirate’s skipper because he felt he could “trust” him. Does that mean he didn’t trust Joe Girardi? Or perhaps he didn’t like being sat 30 games? Or maybe didn’t care for the sit-down he had with Girardi? Or maybe just wanted to return to the National League?
Everything I’ve ever read suggests he loved being a Yankee and wanted to come back, the reports were he was told by Cashman they had no money to match his deal. Clearly that was a lie though since Ichiro only got 2 million less per year.
I wonder why we continue to assume the Yankees actually have a plan. There is no evidence of it. We see players who could help at a modest cost, including Martin and various others who have signed elsewhere (Chavez), being let go without an offer. Then the Yankess sign inflated contracts with aging players showing clear evidence of decline (Youklis, Ichiro). I won’t try to apportion the stupidity in all this between the ownership and the GM. I’ll merely suggest that when you step back and look at the larger picture, there is no coherence. Hal will get his $189 million payroll; the family will rake in huge profits thanks to the YES money-machine; but the product on the field will be old, decaying, and less and less successful as we head toward 2014.
Spot on! And might I add the product is BORING?
I miss the days of Paul O’Neill throwing the water coolers. This year there was no spark in the playoffs. No one blew up. They were just sitting there calm while they got swept. Without Jeter there is no one with that spark.
no matter how much I like Ichiro, I would rather give someone in the minors a chance to prove themselves than to sign Ichiro for 2 years. I feel like I’ve been hearing for years there are big names in the minors 2 or 3 years away and only a few have made it to the majors.
I think the Yanks just caught out. While they waited to see what trades/free agents were workable, and the best of the lot got snapped up or were not worth doing (e.g. Hamilton), Ichiro got those 2-year offers. If they don’t sign him, who’s their right fielder for the next year? And if they want him for one, they have to have him for two.
Ichiro…2 years? No mi bueno. One year? Mucho bueno….2 years? Mierda.
UGH!!!!! What is it that staff writer EJ calls it…the “suck years?” Get ready cause at the very least 2013 and 2014 are going to be just that. The Yankees’ farm system is over hyped and their 25 man roster might be candidates for a viagra commercial. The ownership and Cashman have not planned ahead for this moment. No one is waiting in the wings to replace Jeter (I love the guy but he is 38 and coming off a broken ankle). 3/5 of the starting pitching may be gone by 2014 (Pettitte, Hughes, Kuroda). A second baseman who in all likelihood will walk with the Yankees getting nothing. An aging and who knows retired Arod. The suck years could last a decade. If Cashman lets Granderson and Cano walk without getting some talent for them then he should be fired. It is time Cashman showed some balls and pulled off a blockbuster trade. I am a hugely discouraged Yankees fan. Get ready for a decade like the eighties…cause we aren’t winning jack sh*t anytime soon. Welcome to the “suck years!”
Do they drug test for viagra yet? ‘Cause if not, I’m shipping a case to the clubhouse. Then stand back as Kevin Long continues to teach them how to swing for the short porch in right.
Funny how you said, “I’ll send a case of viagra” followed by….”then stand back”…..i’m guessing viagra works well, but I never knew it worked that well.
The Yankees will off both Granderson and Cano arbitration, so they would get first round picks for both of them when they walk. So they won’t be getting “nothing” for them.
might be better to trade Cano…..the rangers might want him, might even cough up Jurickson Profar, Mike Olt, and Martin Perez
“The Yankees will off both Granderson and Cano arbitration, so they would get first round picks for both of them when they walk. So they won’t be getting “nothing” for them.”
What does that even mean? They will “off both Granderson and Cano”?
No, they do not get “first round picks for both of them when they walk.” They get a “supplemental pick” for each, which is a a pick added between the first and second rounds. Basically a high SECOND round pick.
Other than that, everything you just said is true.
Oh look, a reactionary Yankee fan. Take a breath, buddy, and think how many times the team has been posited to be in great decline. I’m not saying that this situation is necessarily the same, but lamenting over the future after 17 playoff appearances in the last 18 years is fighting somewhat against the current. Times in Yankeeland always change, but the results seem to work themselves out. I won’t start your thought process until I’ve seen like, ya know, a final 2013 roster and maybe some actual games.
Ichiro will not collect the 394 hits (an average of 197 hits a season) he’ll need to collect in 2013-14 to reach 3000 hits as a Yankee. Even if he collected as many as 184 hits in one year, he’d need to collect 210 in the other to reach 3000 hits before 2015 – ‘not happening.
Once again the Yanks bid against themselves as they paid too much for Pettitte who is not worth $2M more than Mariano Rivera and they paid too much for Youkilis who is not worth twice as much as Mark Reynolds.
The Yanks should’ve done this in this order:
Re-signed Martin to the two-year $8M a year $16M total contract he signed with the Pirates for.
Re-signed Melky Cabrera to a two-year $6M a year $12M total contract he would’ve taken to be a Yankee again.
Re-signed Eric Chavez to the year and $3M contract he signed with the Diamondbacks for.
Offered Pettitte a year and $7.5M, triple his 2012 salary (respectful and respectable) and 75% of Rivera’s base salary and if he rejected it, signed 31-year old 3.14M under 1.2 WHIP in 2012 Scott Baker for the contract the Cubs gave him ($5.5M base plus $1.5M incentives for up to $7M for 2013 only.)
Signed Mark Reynolds for the year and $6M he took from the Indians.
Offered Youkilis a year and $6M and if he rejected it, signed Jack Hannahan for a year and $3M and platoon him at 3B with Chavez ($6M total.)
There you go:
C – Martin signed through 2014 $8M (measly half a mil raise)
1B – Teixiera signed through 2016 $22.5M
2B – Cano in his walk year $15M
3B – Youkilis or Chavez/Hannahan signed for 2013 only $6M
SS – Jeter in a likely walk year as I doubt he’ll exercise his $8M player’s option for 2014 $17M
LF – Granderson in his walk year $15M
CF – Gardner under control through 2014 $2.85M
RF – Cabrera signed through 2014 $6M
DH – Reynolds signed for 2013 only $6M
Jeter SS R
Cabrera RF S
Cano 2B L
Teixiera 1B S
Granderson LF L
Reynolds DH R
Martin C R
Youkilis or Chavez/Hannahan 3B R or L/R
Gardner CF L
Teixiera is the ONLY player under guaranteed contract beyond 2014.
Martin and Cabrera are the ONLY players under guaranteed contract through 2014.
Jeter is the ONLY starter over 33 years old.
Batters 1 through 8 are capable of hitting 15 or more HR each, 2 through 7 20 or more HR each (and who says Youkilis couldn’t smack 20?), 2 through 6 25 or more HR each, 3 through 6 30 or more HR each (and who says Cabrera couldn’t hit 30?)
4/9ths homegrown (Jeter, Cabrera, Cano, Gardner.)
Let go of everyone save those three and Gardner and the Yanks clear $59M – $3M Jeter’s buyout if he declines his 2014 player’s option = $56M.
If the Yanks traded Martin, Teixiera, Cabrera, Gardner, any two or three, or all four after 2013 also, they’d clear $58.35M to $95.35M for 2014 plus another $32.5M letting go of Kuroda ($15M) and from the dual-retirement of Rivera ($10M) and Pettitte ($7.5M.)
I don’t mean to be rude, but you said platoon Eric Chavez and Jack Hannahan? If I’m not mistaken, Hannahan is a left-handed hitter, so I don’t think that would work as a platoon (as Chavez also hits left-handed), unless I’m missing something, which perhaps I am.
Cashman did an awful job this offseason with his moves save re-signing Kuroda and Rivera.
He signs Youkilis for $12M, double what Mark Reynolds took from the Indians and quadruple what Chavez took from the Diamondbacks.
He re-signs Ichiro to a two-year $12-13M deal but won’t give Melky Cabrera that Melky would’ve taken or the 2 years and $16M Melky took from Toronto (only $3-4M more than what Ichiro will make.)
He re-signs Pettitte for $12M when could’ve had Pettitte and Scott Baker for only $1-2.5M more had he got Pettitte to take $7.5M and signed Baker for what he took from the Cubs ($5.5M base + $1.5M incentives.) I think Pettitte would’ve taken $7.5M and if he wanted more, ok, offer him $10M and tell him that’s quadruple his 2012 salary, Mo’s 2013 salary, and he’s not worth more than Mo. If he rejects that, make him wait a decade to have his number retired since it was obviously still about the money with him at the end. Double that wait time if he pulled a “I wanna pitch at home in Texas” again and signed with Texas or re-signed with Houston especially with Houston in the AL starting in 2013.
He lost Martin to a team who may or may not be the real deal and Chavez to a bad team.
Have to disagree.
You don’t know what went behind the thi king here. Especially since the yanks may consider Romine the starting catcher in 2014. What rf in the farm do we have that we can say he can be the starting rf in 2014?
Nexaxtly? None!
So to speculate giving 39 yo ichiro the two yr deal ultimately hurting our chances to stay under 189 is also naive. Ichiro will make 8 million at best 2014. Will that break the bank?
It all adds up, 8 million in 2014 drops the budget from 189 to 181 million, combine that with 75 million between Alex, Tex, and Sabathia your’e down to 106 million, re-sign Cano and you’re down to 81 million, Jeter brings it to around 65 million. So now you have 65 million to fill out 3 or 4 rotation spots, C, LF, DH, a bullpen, and a bench.
With guaranteed money already going to all these players over the age of 30 it’s “naive” to commit any more money, let alone 8 million, to players who will be 40 year old platoon players. You could find someone to be just as productive as Ichiro in 2014 for 1 or 2 million, paying 4 to 8 times that for the same thing is ridiculous. Especially when the only reason behind it is he might get his 3000th hit.
You are absolutely wrong. Ichiro will shine in right. He hits for avg. Now in the .290 range. He will get more hr given short porch. When on base he is fast. On martin keeping for one, let alone 2 years of putrid batting. No way. Cervelli will do well, but be over taken by romine in June. This year let’s see how these wheeze kids players will do. And, set the stage for ny minor leaguers to replace the core group. Also trade boras, I mean Cano.
Chris….here is what will happen if they let Cano and Granderson walk. I got this from MLB.com:
“The current compensation system for losing “Type A” and “Type B” free agents will be eliminated. Under the new system, teams will receive compensation for losing a free agent only if they offer — and the player rejects — a guaranteed one-year contract equal to the average salary of the league’s 125 highest-paid players. Compensation for losing such players will consist of one Draft pick at the end of the first round.”
YIKES! A draft pick at the end of the first round? That is not nearly enough when compared to what they might be able to get in a trade. A trade might net them the players to fill some significant needs.
Really?… you are excited about Youk/Irchiro/Kuroda? Are there so many of you lamenting the departure of a .211 hitting catcher? Is this what Yankee fans are reduced to? This is the Yankees answer to compete against the Blue Jays, Rays, Orioles, Angels?
I understand why Steve calls me reactionary. The winter isn’t over, the final ’13 roster not set and no games have been played. However, my point is still valid. The Yankees show no signs of developing legit Major League players or any guts in the trade market to this point. I hope Steve is right…I hope the Yankees find a way to win. But I am bracing myself for the suck years. If they come to fruition then Cashman should be fired.
Why is everyone upset at this probable signing?
Every yankee blog I’m on they are fuming about this decision.
Suzuki is still a legendary player, hits for avg high OBP guy. There is no doubt that he will hit 300 and if he is lucky up to 330.
This is a guy who hit 350 a few years back…
I’m really glad suzuki will be back, brings diversity to the Yankees and more $$$.
Much more asians have been yankee fans the last few years(I can attest to that) The likes of Wang,Matsui,Kuroda and Suzuki has been tremendous to the Asian fanbase. Don’t blame the yankees for the 2 year deal, it is a good financial one , don’t hate.
Now that we have surplus of lefty hitting outfielders here is a trade muse:
Granderson and Hughes to pirates for garrit cole and and Tabata.
I know it seems like long shot.
We can substitute nova for Hughes if pirates rather that but pirates had bad off season and may want go for it.
Tabata could also be our right handed platoon with ichiro.
Sounds crazy but just idea.
Mariner fans thank the Yankee’s for taking Ichiro last season. The mariners did much better after he left. He is a very selfish player and a quiet cancer in the dugout. Sorry Yankee fans, he will be benched or cut by the end of the season. Remember John Olerud. The laughter you hear is coming from the west coast.