As expected, Twitter was abuzz with fans, bloggers and MSM types weighing in both for and against the big deal just consummated by the Yanks and Mariners. ESPNs Marc Simon does a statistical breakdown on Pineda and Montero, Frank Piliere calls it a narrow win for the Yanks, while Keith Law gives a slight edge to the Mariners. Here’s a compilation of some highlights, I’ll weigh in with my own thoughts tomorrow morning:
@jonmorosi Jon Morosi
#Yankees suddenly have starting depth to spare: Sabathia, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova, Burnett, Hughes, Garcia.
@swbyankeesTT SWB Yankees Blog
I’ve thought about it. Here’s why I don’t like the trade: Yankees have big pitchers in the system. They don’t have another Montero.
Look objectively at Yankees right-handed bats. Which one isn’t on the downside of his career?
@Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein
No. RT @Diooony: @Kevin_Goldstein Is there a pitcher in the Yankees system with more potential upsiden than Pineda?
Both. RT @pud19660: @Kevin_Goldstein who wins this trade in your mind. Yankees or Mariners?
@mikeaxisa Mike Axisa
You know what? Based on what Latos and Gio cost, the Yankees freaking stole Pineda.
@Jason_IIATMS Jason Rosenberg
Giddy-up RT @jazayerli Yankees willing to trade Montero for 3 mo of CLee. Instead they traded him for 5 yrs of Pineda. I’d call that a win
@TylerKepner Tyler Kepner
Amazing how franchise of Griffey/ARod/Edgar/Buhner/etc is now so hopeless offensively that they trade potential ace Pineda for Montero.
@JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
@YankeesWFAN Sweeny Murti
One agent told me tonight, “This is why Brian Cashman is the best in the business.” Waited out the asking prices this winter.
@Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman
Feedbck from 4 GMs and all liked trade for #Yankees. One said, ‘They had great trade chip (Montero) and used it wisely”
This feels like bad night for Boras: Kuroda means #Yankees out on EJax and #Mariners get Montero, does that firmly take out on Prince?
@jimcallisBA Jim Callis
I’d put him at No. 5, between Williams & Bichette. @bdelbanco: how about where Campos would be on #Yankees list?
@BobKlap Bob Klapisch
Brian Cashman stressed, “huge risk” in deal w/Mariners. “I gave up a ton (for Pineda). To me, Montero is Mike PIazza. He’s Miguel Cabrera.”
@lenNYsYankees Lenny Neslin
“I only wish the worst for the team. [Jesus Montero] is going to be a Hall of Famer.” – Dad
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21 Responses to Reactions pour in on the Montero-Pineda deal
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While the Yankees have starting pitching prospects in the minors, none has shown consistency on even the AAA level. Also many would consider Gary Sanchez to be on a very similar level to Montero, some say even more powerful. He is obviously much further away but I would think he is also much more likely to be a catcher.
Also not sure how this trade proves the Yankees budget doesn’t matter. They traded 6 years of cost controlled bat for 5 years of cost controlled pitching. If anything it keeps them from having to spend on an overpriced arm in the near future.
“[Jesus Montero] is going to be a Hall of Famer.”
I love Montero, but I’m glad I don’t have to hear ridiculous hyperbole like this anymore just because he is a Yankee prospect.
Also not sure how this trade proves the Yankees budget doesn’t matter. They traded 6 years of cost controlled bat for 5 years of cost controlled pitching. If anything it keeps them from having to spend on an overpriced arm in the near future.
I think he was referring to the Kuroda signing. I’ll edit that out, it really doesn’t belong in this piece. I was just collecting tweets that jumped out at me and didn’t notice that.
BTW-Check out Goldsteins twitter feed, loads of info on both players.
Ahh, that makes more sense. Still though I don’t consider 10 million for 1 year blowing the budget to hell. Especially when you consider we only need to conserve our budget come 2014.
Goldstein is even more down on Jesus catching than I am. I don’t think he has a future at the position, he doesn’t think he should even be behind the plate this up coming year.
big mistake by the yankees trading montero
Care to elaborate? Or do you simply base this on an unreasonable obsession with a prospect you’ve seen play less than 20 times? I know everyone fell in love with Montero because he was a “home grown Yankee”, for whatever that matters. However I’m sure you’ll fall just as fast for a pitcher who’s as young as Montero and throwing 94 on average, with a killer slider.
So now what to the Yankees do at DH? Now who is the primary backup catcher do we go back to Cervelli and let Romine get some seasoning at AAA? This allows the Yankees to be a lot more creative in what we can do about those holes and backup corner infielder. Also what to do with Burnett? My brain is tingling with the possibilities!
I imagine DH will be a revolving door for guys like Alex, Jeter, Teixeira, Jones etc… Girardi really loves to have a flexible DH spot anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Chavez re-signed, or someone like Betemit brought in to give the infield more depth and allow another bat to be shuffled through DH. With as good as our offense is we don’t need an everyday DH anyway, plus giving Alex more days to bat without fielding should help keep him healthy.
Cervelli was likely to always have a spot on the roster next year. With as bad as Montero is behind the plate, and DH’ing most of the time, he probably wasn’t going to get more than 40-60 games behind the plate anyway. So a third catcher would have been a must for days when Montero DH’s.
Romine really needs Scranton. His defense is good enough for the majors, though I wouldn’t want him behind the plate for me every day, but he needs a lot more seasoning with the bat. He seemed completely overwhelmed against major league pitching, so if he wants to start one day he needs to pick that up a little more.
Burnett is the most interesting of all the questions brought about by today’s moves. I imagine the Yankees will actively search to dump him, but if they maintain that they won’t pay more than 8-10 million of his salary they probably won’t find any taker. He can’t do much damage as a 5th starter anyway though, so keeping him really won’t kill us. He’s proven reliable in at least throwing innings over the last 3 years, so if you can get 190-200 innings out of the number 5 spot you’ll take it.
Starting the year with Burnett in the 5 hole, Hughes in Scranton, and Garcia in the pen as the long man might be the best option depth wise. It would allow you to replace Burnett at any time with a pitcher with MLB innings as a starter, it would allow Hughes to try and work him himself back into form in a pressure free environment, and it would allow us to start out with a pitcher with more upside than Garcia while still keeping Garcia close to the rotation in case he’s needed.
Joel Sherman brought up something interesting regarding DH. He said the Yanks could make a play for Damon on a 1 year deal. That wouldn’t be too bad considering he wouldn’t be playing the outfield, his bat would play better in Yankee stadium than anywhere else, and they could still sit him for Alex to have days off.
I’ve also heard Carlos Pena’s name thrown around, but I am not sure they would go that route.
I’m intrigued by Johnny’s dynamism, although I don’t know if he can steal bases anymore. He’s smart with the bat ,though, will buggywhip some and help keep rallies going.
Johnny stole 11 with the Tigers in 2010 and 19 last year with the Rays. My only problem with Damon is he was effective with us because he was hitting for power in the 2 hole. Number 1. he doesn’t have the power he once did, while Yankee Stadium will bring back some of that pop Comerica and the Trop took away it won’t get him back to 24 HRs. Number 2. He won’t be able to hit near the top of the order, at best he will be hitting 7th behind Swisher. Will he be happy with that? If so will his power be enough even in Yankee Stadium when he’s not hitting behind Arod, Teixeira, and Cano?
I’d much rather have Pena at this point in their respective careers, but if that’s a no go and Damon is willing to take a low cost 1 year deal I would certainly consider it. On the condition that he would be willing to sit regularly for Alex to DH. Damon is hanging on trying to stat chase for the HOF, and he’s 277 hits away from 3,000. He may not be OK with anything but an everyday job and I wouldn’t be willing to give him that many ABs. I’d be willing to give Pena more ABs than Damon, but I’d still want him to sit against all lefties.
Biggest downside for the Yankees will be loss in revenue from Montero jersey sales.
Yankees fans of all ages were well aware of Montero’s special ” IT ” quality,
perhaps ( was ) … the next Yankee ” Superstar. “
Because Pineda jersey’s will just sit lonely on the shelf to never be worn…
… hopefully not as lonely as a Burnett jersey
Oh I’m sure there are plenty of people buying Burnett jersey’s in order to perform various voodoo rituals. “Never touch joboos rum”
Will the new pair of pitchers (Pineda and Kuroda) break the Brown, Pavano, Wright, Burnett, Soriano trend?
Thought the future of the Yankee staff was solid,
especially in Banuelos and Betances?
Trading away a ( potential ) Superstar in
Montero is a buzzkill … as there was plenty of
buzz in the stands the few times he came to the plate.
How often does a rookie get two curtain calls in one game ?
There was a “newness” about Montero, an excitement … the fresh face of the
franchise, the transitional figure of a NEW Yankee era.
Very rarely does a guy with that certain “Yankee Aura” mold come along.
So it’s back to the same OLD-ER lineup.
I can think of plenty of ways to describe the future of the Yankees pitching staff before this trade, solid isn’t one of them. Banuelos and Betances both carry serious question marks and neither has had a dominant season above A ball. Both showed serious control issues, Banuelos will always have durability question with such a small frame, Betances will always have mechanics questions with such a lanky frame, Banuelos reportedly lost a tick from where his fastball set in 2010, Banuelos projects as a number 2-3 at the height of his ceiling not an ace, and Betances still seems like he is destined for the bullpen before all is said and done. Nova is a great quality arm, but the folks racing to put the 2-3 starter tag on him are jumping the gun. I still think he settles in somewhere between a 3 and a 4 on a solid playoff rotation, and though he should win plenty of games in the regular season with our offense sinker balls are always a question mark in the playoffs. Sabathia’s been wonderful for the past 3 years, better than anyone could’ve asked for really, but at 31 he’s got less good years in front than he does behind him. Noesi seems like he has the repetoire to stick in the rotation but he was only average out of the pen last year, at best he projects more as a 4-5, with possible 3 upside. Good but certainly not top of the rotation material.
The Yankees needed a top of the rotation pitcher in the worst way and they managed to do that with a 22 year old starter. Plus they managed to pay signifigantly less than anyone thought possible, doesn’t get much better than this.
We all loved Montero but a buzz and a couple of curtain calls isn’t enough to turn away this deal.
Mistake on pitching again for Cashman. Pineda was bad against AL East teams. Also really tall pitchers have a hard time keeping there mechanics.
And why give up Noesi? The guy was longman and spot starter and did well for a rookie bouncing between bullpen and starting.
That’s ridiculous! You’ve decided it’s a bad trade thanks to a 53.1 inning sample size? That’s ludicrous! You can’t determine anything from such a small sample size, especially one that boils down even further than that. He was great against the Orioles and Rays, which make up 25.1 innings of that 53.1. furthermore he only pitched 4.1 innings against the Red Sox in 1 start and 5.0 innings against the Yankees in 1 start. So you can’t even consider those games to mean anything other than he was a young starter facing two of the best lineups in baseball for the first time ever. I actually watched him pitch against the Yankees and was very impressed with his 5 innings of work. He gave up 3 runs, which isn’t that bad for your first outing against our lineup, and I thought he pitched better than his final line indicated. Which is exactly why these small samples mean nothing.
The tall pitcher = no control because of mechanics argument doesn’t fly with Pineda. The most batters he ever walked was 3.1 BB/9 in rookie ball at 17, and in 404.1 minor league innings he posted an outstanding 2.1 BB/9. Even in his 171.0 IP this year at the major league level he only walked 2.89 batters per 9 innings pitched. He’s never shown himself to lose his mechanics and walk the park like Dellin Betances.
We gave up Noesi and got Campos in return. Campos is a 19 year old pitcher who sits in the mid 90′s and has ace upside as well. We gave up a pitcher projected as a 4-5 and is major league ready for a pitcher with much more upside further away. It’s a wash in that respect and when you consider the Yankees have plenty of similar pitchers who can fulfill the role of longman/spot starter (Garcia, Hughes, Warren, Phelps) it makes perfect sense to take a gamble on a pitcher with tons more upside.
Personally, I wanted to see Montero play. I waited a long time and was really excited. Both players are “potentially” great players. On both accounts we need to wait and see. But Montero came up through our system. I like watching our home grown players succeed on the Yankees. It is also easier to see Montero as having a full career as a high level hitter, while power pitchers have historically, faded quickly. There is no proof that Pineda will be burnt by his 5th year, and there is no proof that Montero will produce 290/20/100 numbers for 10 years…but I see the liklihood of Montero having a better career. And thats why I don’t like the deal. Pineda can easily be a relief guy by 2015 after Tommy John surgery. Only time will tell with this one.
Since when has Tommy John surgery ever meant converting someone to a reliever? Most pitchers come back as good, or in some cases better than ever after Tommy John. Shoulder injuries are the injuries that destroy careers, TJ just takes a year away from a pitcher in the middle of a career. In fact a vast majority of the best pitchers in the league have undergone TJ surgery.