Well, I sure misread this one. It’s being reported all over the place, but Yankee fans heard this announced a few minutes ago on the YES broadcast. Ubaldo Jimenez has been pulled from tonight’s start, as have Cleveland Indians prospects Drew Pomeranz and Alex White from their respective clubs. The complete deal is Drew Pomeranz, Alex White and Matt McBride, according to Troy Renck of the Denver Post. The Indians are pretty much trading their top 2 guys, so they met somewhere in the middle on O’Dowd’s asking price, as expected. An equivalent deal for the Yanks would be Montero, Betances and a AAA pitcher. Cleveland better hope they’re right on Ubaldo, because if they’re not this is the type of deal that can set them back 3 years as an organization.
I’ll have some reaction tomorrow morning once I digest this a bit further, but my initial reaction is this is a departure from their traditional way of doing business. I’ll take them at their word that they are not as high on Jimenez as others, and view him as a #2. But the Yanks need a pitcher, they didn’t get one, and you have to like the chances of the Phillies, Red Sox or Giants better than the Yanks come October.
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75 Responses to Ubaldo Jimenez to Cleveland
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Actually it’s more like they gave up their two best pitching prospects and a fringy first baseman. McBride, as far as I can tell, wasn’t on anyone’s Indians top 10 list coming into the season, and as a 26 year old first baseman in Triple A, it’s hard to see how he could have suddenly jumped to the top. A Yankee equivalent, I think, would be more like Banuelos, Betances and Brandon Laird.
Edit: I just saw that you either changed the post to say top 2 prospects instead of top 3 (or I just misread it originally), so forget what I said.
I did. This is a breaking story, and I was editing like crazy. Sorry for the sloppy 1st draft.
Well it’s obviously not officially a done deal, because Ubaldo is standing on the mound in a Rockies uniform right now. However they have a pitcher warming in the pen as I write this.
I’ll hold my thoughts on this until is actually goes through.
Yeah, he’s pitching and there are reports that the Rockies refused to let the Yanks give him a physical if a deal was struck. Maybe the Indians have hit a similar snag.
Not sure why any team would trade for anyone without a physical.
Looks like the Brewers also traded for Jerry Hairston Jr. I liked him as a super sub, and it would’ve let Nunez start in triple A at short.
As of now (the trade deadline still being a day away), I rate this a complete failure for Cashman. He has overrated his own prospects, misjudged the market, tried to get the Rockies to accept crap for quality, and left the Yankees with a rotation that will be very fortunate to get through the first round fo the play-offs. And I’m just warming up.
Some moves I just can’t explain. Not giving up Joba for Haren. Not adding Nunez for Lee. Now this.
I’ll understand if they weren’t able to give him a physical. The Haren move I will never understand.
I just hope no one in the front office now feels like we have to make a deal and trades for Bell for no reason.
You can’t explain this? It’s quite easy to explain. They had some doubts about Ubaldo and didn’t want to give up 3 top prospects for him. And the Joba for Haren thing apparently never happened.
He went for 2 top prospects, not 3.
Not all “Top 2″ prospects are created equally.
No, which is why I think the talks got heated between the Yanks and Rox. The Yankee package would have been better. Montero is the highest ranked player in either deal and the Yankee prospects are closer to the bigs. Montero, Betances and Nova blows away the CLE deal.
they can have this guy..i’m glad cash passed
Seems like Cashman also called on Liriano and was told he isn’t getting moved at all. so much for all the reports of them dying to get rid of him.
By the way the Rockies should be ashamed. I am watching Ubaldo start, and he is literally able to watch the guy in the pen warming since before he threw his first pitch. He doesn’t look like he has his head in the game at all.
Apparently the Yankees were actually trying to trade Hughes.
Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman
#Yankees were trying to sell their trouble RH Hughes plus for #Rockies troubled RH, but Rox don’t see Ubaldo as troubled at all
1 hour ago
Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman
#Yankees took all #Rockies wanted off table – Banuelos, Betances, Montero, Nova – and offered Hughes and others. #Rockies infuriated (cont)
1 hour ago
Headache for headache, as Sherman said. Seriously, look at how highly touted Hughes was as the #1 pitching prospect in baseball, and look at his career. The two don’t match. His career thus far is what you’d expect from Ivan Nova, not ‘the best prospect on the planet’. He falls into the Edwin Jackson category of #1 guys who have been big disappointments.
I get that he’s 25, and his defenders should get that he’s been ridiculously injury prone, and has spent the better parts of 5 seasons in MLB. At some point, you have to admit he has not been, and probably never will be the dominant #1 or rock solid #2 we thought he’d be.
Yeah that clearly doesn’t make any sense. Maybe that was after the no physical talks, if so that is even worse for Hughes.
You thought he’d be maybe. I still remember being an “idiot” because I thought Hughes ultimate upside was as a “good number number 3 starter”. I heard all the hype before he came up, but when I finally saw him pitch I thought they were talking about someone else. I’ll never understand the hype machine that got behind Hughes. I understand the fans thinking it, but people in high places had him as an ace.
Tons of scouts loved him for a reason. Before his injuries, he had power stuff and excellent command. The former is just not there anymore, and the latter is starting to elude him as well. This is what happens with prospects: they get hurt, and they don’t pan out the way you expected. But it wasn’t just hype, the stuff was legit.
Health is a big part of the reason why the attrition rate is so high on pitching prospects. Those that tend to get hurt tend to stay hurt, while those with good health tend to stay healthy. That’s part of the reason why the veterans are considered the safer bet.
Hey, the Verducci effect hit Verlander and Hamels hard for a year each, then they came back. Don’t write Phil off yet! And I hope the Yanks show patience, after they rode him too hard last year.
THIS!
I never saw him as anything but 3, maybe a low end 2 if he really really worked out. It’s not like I’m talking about now, I’m talking about when I saw him as a rookie.
Joba and Phil rushed. Yankees and fans and MLB teams have no patience. Players, especially pitchers, think too highly of themselves. Not ready. It’s a process. Takes time. Very few pitchers are ready at 22.Disaster waiting to happen and it did. All want the money. Have to EARN it over several years. GREED and selfishness. You think the Yankee front office cares . They filled up the stands for many of Hughes’ and Chamberlain’s appearances.Made their money back ten times over. NEXT. Started with David Clyde of the Rangers in the middle seventies. Check out history. Nova doing ok. 9-4. Also for Rockies. Do not give up on Matt McBride. Shoulder OP. Just getting back to top strength. 15 HRS this year. He’s the sleeper.Maybe not top ten but was a catcher by trade and got injured. Learning OF and 1B.
I was really hoping the Yanks would get this guy. But don’t worry because Soriano is back! (Runs away and hides)
We all know what happened last year losing out on Lee to the Rangers. But lets revisit Cashman’s stance on not including Hughes in the Santana deal.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hugheph01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santajo02.shtml
Though he’s currently on the DL, imagine what our team could have been with a healthy Johan Santana for 3 years, as opposed to what Hughes gave us in that same time frame. We almost certainly make the playoffs in 08 with a 6+ win Santana fronting our staff, as opposed to a -0.4 Hughes. BR’s WAR says Johan was worth 14.4 wins from 08-10, Hughes just 4.0. Even with Johan on the DL and not playing in 2011, he has at least provided no value to the Mets this year. Hughes has been -1.0 WAR for the Yanks this season. So all totaled from 08-11, Santana has been worth 14.4 WAR and Hughes has been worth a net 3.0 WAR.
In retrospect, how can anyone argue that we wouldn’t have been better off dealing away the prospect for the sure thing? When you’re talking about #1 or 2 starters, those are too rare and precious to pass us for wild card prospects. This is why prospect hugging doesn’t make sense for a team like the Yanks and where they are annually on the win curve. When the CLE GM is more bold than the Yankee GM, something’s wrong.
A big part of that was paying twice for him when CC was available in the summer. Cash has referenced it many, many times. They likely don’t sign CC if they trade for Santana.
How is that an argument when they failed to land CC that July? They were saving their bullets for something that never happened?
And I’m sorry, but the Yankee budget is always flexible. If anything, the desperation for CC intensified after failing to make the playoffs, and everybody knew it. Their backs were against the wall, so they wound up handing him whatever they wanted. The next closest bid was Milwaukee’s 100 mil, so you could argue their desperation cost them a minimum 40-50 mil.
Maybe we could argue they would have had to choose one of CC or Tex, but there was around 40 mil coming off the books in 09. With Johan aboard, there was still room for CC.
Because that’s what Cashman said. He said they didn’t want to pay in prospects when they could just pay CC with Cash that offseason. And he said they certainly would not have gotten both.
Was that before or after he referred to getting Tex as “Fantasy land”?
He’s said it many, many times since then. You want to call him a liar, fine. But this has been widely reported, has been brought up many times, and I’m not sure why you’ve suddenly decided that it is false.
I’m just being a tool, I know he’s said that many times. I just don’t believe him, the payroll numbers don’t match up with his statements, as I explained earlier.
Santana’s K/9 in the NL has been 7.9, 7.9, 6.5 and 0. So glad that trade didn’t happen.
Yeah, Phil’s been much better.
Phil, no. CC, yes.
It’s not an either/or. Maybe with Tex, but not CC. If we don’t sign Tex, Nick Swisher or Posada is playing 1B and you go get a RF.
Of course, if we don’t sign Tex then Boston very well might have. That makes them better in 09-11, but we may have been the ones to land A-Gon, or maybe we would stop the charade with Montero and give him a 1B mitt. Lots of scenarios to consider, but its hard to argue Hughes>Santana.
Santana also made a lot more money. Which was then spent on other pieces. It’s funny, this is widely considered as one of Cashman’s best non-moves.
Harden to the Red Sox for a washed up Lars Anderson. The hits just keep on coming.
Zero interest in Harden at all. They can have him.
At least he’s a wild card with upside, to go along with our other 4 question marks. Maybe Colon can hook him up with his doctor and get some stem cells injected in his arm.
Brian “Let’s Not Make A Deal” Cashman
Brian “I Can’t Land Even A #3 Starter” Cashman
Brian “Robinson Cano Is The Only Farm System Player I’ve Developed Who’s Been Worth a Damn For More Than Three Full Seasons As A Yankee” Cashman
Brian “I Don’t Want To Give Up Something To Get Something” Cashman
Brian “I (Can) Only Make No-Brainer Trades Or Lopsided In Favor Of The Yankees Trades” Cashman
First, Captain Can’t Hit Anymore (Jeter), now G.M. Can’t Trade Anymore (Cashman) and I will call him GMCTA from hereonin until the Yanks fire him if they miss the postseason or let him go if they don’t at least make it to the ALCS.
Oh yeah, if you think the Yanks don’t need a #3 starter, then who is the #2 and who is the #3? This rotation is an ace (Sabathia) followed by four #4s. When you don’t have a #2, you need two #3s.
You mad
Nah.
Cashman is full of shit about the Johan/CC stuff.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html
08 payroll 209 mil (w/o Johan)
09 payroll 201 mil (w/o Johan)
Trade for Johan for 08 season (earned 19 mil that year). Obviously, that affects the 08 payroll, but we know they were willing to figure that out when they went hard after Johan.
They had 70 mil coming off the books in 08 (Giambi, Moose, Abreu, Farnsy, etc).
2009-Signed CC (23 mil)
Signed Tex-(20 mil)
Signed Burnett (16.5 mil)
Payroll went down 8 mil in 2009 despite the spending spree, so if you don’t sign AJ and you have Johan Santana (20 mil) the payroll only goes up by 3.5 mil, which is still 4.5 below the 08 figure (w/o Johan).
Long story short, if you trade for Johan, you can still sign CC and still sign Tex, you just don’t sign Burnett. You probably don’t bring back Pettitte to make the 08 payroll work but Andy wasn’t great in 08 anyway. That also lowers the 09 figure, which included Andy.
So the stuff about “not affording CC and Johan” is complete bullshit by Cashman. He just didn’t want to give up Hughes, which we all knew.
Or maybe, they didn’t want to hand two 7 year deals to lefty starters for 125M+. Burnett’s deal is 2 years shorter and cheaper per year. To call him full of shit on this seems pretty odd. But believe whatever you want. I’ll say this: if I could go back in time and make the Johan trade, I wouldn’t.
I really could have said that much more concisely, without the attacks. Simply put, they had 70 mil coming off the books in 08, which would have been 50 mil to spend with Johan in the fold. To say that “they couldn’t have afforded CC” is the narrative that Cashman spun, and a lot of smart people who never looked at the books bought it. They could have afforded Johan, CC and Tex. Those are the facts, and not arguable, its simple math. Its also a fact that despite his injury, Johan has been much more productive than Hughes. You may still want to wait for Phil’s promise to show up, but after 5 seasons I’m done waiting. There’s something to be said for the win-now mentality, and while that can also have its limits there’s a balance to be struck between the two. When it comes to young pitchers, I don;t think Brian strikes the correct balance.
No, it isn’t simple math, because it wasn’t a one year deal. It was a 7 year deal, compared to a 5 year one at 20% lower AAV. You can call it simple, but maybe the reason so many smart people have bought it is because it is plausible, was mentioned at the time, and has been continuously stated by the organization, even when Johan was healthy and pitching well.
I have no problem with Cashman holding on to Hughes and Chambein. It is easy to arm chair QB. Young top shelf pitching is pure gold. The highest commodity in baseball Where would the sox be without Lester and Bucholz? Cheap top of the rotation allows them to pay Gonzalez and Crawford. If you flip those 2 with Chamberlin and Hughes the Yankees would be cruising and the sox would be no where. And Hughes Chamberlin were just as highly thought of as those 2 (maybe higher). It didn’t work out but you can’t blame Cashman. He is not an idiot b/c of it and Ebstein is not a genius because of it. It is basically luck and misfortune on both sides. As for Jiminez, that trade is a joke you can’t tell me Colorado traded a guy with his stuff and his affordable contract for that. It makes NO sense whatsoever. They view him as an injury waiting to happen. I’ll keep dellin and Jesus and see where they all end up
Young top shelf pitching is pure gold.
If they pan out, sure. If they don’t there’s what economists call an ‘opportunity cost’ where you wasted a spot on your roster that could have be utilized more productively. When you’re a team like the Yankees that tries to win it all annually, that’s a very real cost.
Right. If they pan out. That is the point. You have to keep them for them to pan out. And you need a few to pan out, because nowadays teams sign their young pitching early and far fewer hit the market.
Right, but when they do hit the market, we don’t make the deal anyway. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.
The red sox are “a team like the Yankees” that is always trying to win. They held on to Lester and Ellsbury rather than trade them for Santana. That prudent move is paying huge dividends. It will not always work out but you have to maintain the philosophy that if youTRULY believe a prospect has ace potential you hold on YO him and at some point a few will pan out. And if you pull the trigger on a trade using that level of prospect it better be for as sure a thing as possible ( and not some guy with declining velocity or peripherals)
And Jiminez is not a sure thing
Yeah, Paul, something smells. Nice that they kept him in for a batting order round today, so they could squeeze a fourth player out of Cleveland.
agree
It tells you how far Phil has fallen in the organizations’ eyes that they were willing to send him to Colorado for a guy who they weren’t sure was healthy. Sad.
It wasn’t a serious offer: Phil has current issues, no doubt. They knew Colo couldn’t show the fans: hey, looky what we got! It was a bargaining ploy in response to the denial of a physical.
And that makes Cashman look like Jack Z – really a bush league ploy. The Rockies had every right to deny a physical – the Yankees would have gotten one after a deal had been struck. Cashman offering up a mediocre to poor Hughes on a silver platter can only be construed as insulting- that’s beneath Cashman
Steve s when did you become a Yankee fan? This year? Joke. You sound so stupid second guessing when we won in 2009. We were not going all in for CC if we had Johannes santana. Stop being a whiny spoiled bitch.
+99
To my friends at Yankee Analysts. The Rox would not let the Yankees give Ubaldo a PHYSICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I guess what I’ve been saying all this time was pure speculation about injury concerns and decreased velocity but it makes you wonder. Would you buy a car without at least being able to test drive it or even look at it? Some here on Yankee Analyst would. Great being a monday morning QB and looking beyond the scope of reason. The Cash is no idiot, I wish some supposed Yankee fans would relax and stop being spoiled brats.
Also I heatmrd allot of Yankee fans on here say Ivan Nova should not hold up the deal. And including him in with two of montero/banuelos/betances is an afterthought is interesting in the aspect of look at Nova with his 9 wins in AL east and lower era than ubaldo and now say he is the last piece of the deal trading away two of our three best prospects and him is essentially a fair trade. Sometimes keeping quiet and letting proffessionals who have inside knowledge is best idea. No?
I’m late to thread but here’s my thoughts anyway …
I just cant ignore Joel Sherman’s tweet indicating that Cashman had pulled all the major prospects off the table and offered Hughes and “lesser players.”
I think that speaks VOLUMES of what Cashman thinks of Hughes’s future. Its no longer is Hughes a #2 or #3 in a rotation headed by a clear ace, but rather, can Hughes MAKE the frigging rotation?
That said, the failure to have Hughes or Joba become a mainstay in this rotation put Cashman in a very difficult position this trading deadline. Ubaldo being the ONLY potential available ace didnt help things either. Cashman simply wasnt willing to part with Montero and quality SP depth (nova).
Cashman probably wont be back next season. Barring something completely unforeseen, nothing is going to happen tomorrow of note. But we’re probably going to look back at this trading deadline and thank Cashman for not giving away the Banuelos and Montero and Nova.
Next year’s deadline should offer another crack at a team’s ace. Greinke? Felix? Josh Johnson? Billingsley? Here’s hoping the market improves.
p.s., CJ Wilson is going to bed tonight a very very happy man.
This one was tough. this deal had me wavering from optimistic to uneasy.
Jimenez isnt a game changer like cliff le e. The physical issue if true made this a non possibility.
As a guy who has watched literally 140+ games a year since 1979 this whole idea that getting to the playoffs and winning 90 games every year isnt goood enough is beyond absurd.
Im fine with this. The team is competitive and the best roster does not always win in the end.
I look forward to watching mintero, bettances banuelos nova in the bronx this year and in september of next.
This year? Huh? Betances and Banuelos will not be Yankees this year as they are currently in AA ball. Montero might get called up, might not, I’m guessing not. Nova is back with the Yankees.
Sigh. Right. Thats why I said SEPTEMBER of next year. Read a post before you reply.
Ill watch nova and montero in sept this year.
Ill probably watch the b’s september next year.
So calm down with your “???!!???” Crap and read. In your case perhaps read twice.
Also I gotta say that nova has turned me into a believer. looks like a legit #4 with the possibility of being a number 3.
Frankly I dont see jimenez out WARing montero nova and bettances from 2012-2015.
Possible but ill take my chanes. Seems that troika can easily provide 8 war per year combined. Even if bettances becomes a reliever nova looks like a 3 to 4 war guy and mintero should have a 4 war floor even catching part time. I wouldnt have made that deal either.
i don’t mind their chances doing anything ever at all. i always expect them to win. when garcia and colon take the mound i feel good. when AJ takes the mound i feel good. hughes is the lone guy i just can’t take right now. if the yankees get into the post season i expect them to beat the shit out of whoever they play. i’m serious. would i think they stood a better chance with lee and halladay and CC?…of course but that is unrealistic. do i think they could destroy lee given another chance?…absolutely. the crazy push for them to get another starter is weird to me. i wouldn’t want to see one of our guys shoved out. it’s bad enough that nova had to be sent back. these guys are all pitching so good in my eyes that i’d hate for them to acquire some question mark, yes, i said question mark like ubaldo and have one of OUR guys pushed out. ubaldo is a total enigma with awesome potential, harden is a ticking time bomb….though i did like that fister guy okay. anyway, i like our guys. i love our chances. the yankees look really good if you ask me.
boy, it’s been encouraging to hear some real sense out of the fanbase here. High marks for rabble-rousing, Steve S.
The one difference I have with you, Briang, is Cliff Lee. He’s shown his human side in the regular season again, but, lo, come the big game: he’s not someone I want to face.
Not getting Ubaldo Jimenez should raise red flags to fans about what is really going on with him. The Yankees are not going to rush to judgement in a situation like this. They didn’t get Jimenez because they value their top prospects and believe that they will be real contributors on the major league level.
The opportunity for Montero to contribute to the Yankee offense will come this year eventually. He will show his ability to hit the ball and will be a young impact bat in the Yankees lineup for years if he lives up to the potential or comes close.
Betances and Banuelos are highly valued prospects for a reason. People talk about not trading away young talented pitchers, but why can’t it apply to highly touted pitching prospects. Banuelos is a lefty starter who can throw in the mid to low 90s fastball with good movement, with a plus changeup advanced for his age, and the chance to have a plus curveball if he can throw it consistently. He is having control issues walking batters at a high rate, which could stem from trying to dial it back to consistenltly throw hard to make up for lost velocity.
Betances is a 6’8″ pitcher who can consistently throw in the mid 90s topping out at 97 at times. He has a hammer curve and shows flashes of a plus changeup. Like Banuelos he is having control issues and walking batters at a high rate as well. A pitcher his height usually struggle to repeat their delivery because they have more moving parts than smaller pitchers. If he finds his control he can be a true ace on the Yankees pitching staff. Because of his height he has a nice downward plane towards home plate releasing the baseball closer to the plate making the ball seem faster to the batter.
Unlike the casual fan, the Yankees have the ability to monitor their prospects and evaluate them more accurately because they have more information. The organization values these prospects because they see the potential that each one has and they believe they have the ability as an organization to figure out how to get the most out of these players. The Yankees are not going to undervalue their prospects and sell low on their best prospects and overpay for a pitcher. This trade deadline can be evaluated in a few years when we have a better pitcher on what the Yankees potentially missed out on in Jimenez. By then we can see what Montero, Banuelos, and Betances have become and evaluate the trade when we have a clearer picture. Until then we have to have a little faith in the Yankees front office that they made the right decision.
As a fan I would think that it is more enjoyable seeing a homegrown talent contribute than someone signed or traded for unless they were a special talent. For a team to be contenders continually, they need players that they develop to contribute. The Yankees of the 90s had Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, and Jorge Posada for the best part of their careers since they went through their farm system. Hopefully the Yankees made the right decision with Jimenez, and I hope I see all three contribute in New York in about 2 years.
The Yankees farm system has intriguing talent in the lower levels as well in Mason Williams, Gary Sanchez, and Brett Marshall. In a few years they may skyrocket in the prospect rankings if they utilize their talent. Brett Marshall is the most intriguing of the three and has a great groundball rate and strikeout rate, currently dominating high-A and almost throwing 110 innings so far this season, and career high.
Has anyone gone over to minor league ball (SB NATION) website and reviewed what Cleveland gave up in this trade? The only significant piece was the LH Pomeranz. He potentially may grade out to a (A-) and in time may turn out to be an ace. But now he grades out as a B+. And the Rox wanted Banuelos (A-) Montero (A-) and Betannces right now (B+) but can potentially grade out (A-) with IVAN Nova!!!! LOL. Good for you Cash, good for you! And to all that were willing to part with two out of the three and throw in Ivan Nova for good measures, I’m sooo happy your not my GM.
I agree completely. Any time an ace caliber pitcher is dealt there is an obvious reason why. Maybe salary, or pending free agency, the pitcher wants out, or the team sucks and they want to bring in a load of top prospects Whatever it is, there is a reason. With Jiminez there is no reason. If Jiminez is not hurt or on the verge of it, this trade makes no sense for the Rox. Not saving much money, not getting back anyone who will be better than who they are trading. What is the point. IMO they are very concerned about a potential physical problem. I bet that is why the Yanks passed and if so, good for them
Just saw the PTBNL is a top guy, so the haul is better than I thought. But still not so great as to be the sole reason to trade an ace. Maybe to trade a guy with declining velocity…. but certainly not such a great haul as to entice you to trade a guy who was nearly theNL cy young last year
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