Can Lightning Strike Twice? Joba, Yankees Can Learn A Lot From Ron Guidry
(The following is being syndicated from The Captain’s Blog).
Once upon a time, the Yankees had a promising young pitching prospect who was inexplicably converted into a late inning reliever. After a couple of seasons of disappointing results, however, many within the organization, not to mention the media and fans, began to question his mental makeup and body size. Eventually, there were indications that the team was looking to trade its once prized prospect, who had become tarnished because of his lack of development.
Although the parallels are similar, the story above is not about Joba Chamberlain. Rather, it is the tale of Ron Guidry’s early days with the Yankees.
The Yankees drafted Ron Guidry out of the University of Southwestern Louisiana in 1971. Despite barely being 150 pounds soaking wet, Guidry had developed a reputation as a terrific athlete, which attracted the attention of Yankees’ regional scout Atley Donald (whose Yankee record of 12 wins without a loss to start a season was broken by Guidry in 1978). The Yankees weren’t alone in their interest, however. In fact, every team but the Yankees and Reds contacted the hard throwing left hander during his college career, but only Donald seemed to realize that Guidry’s failure to enroll in USL’s spring semester made him eligible for the upcoming June draft. As a result, the Yankees came away with Guidry, making him the 67th overall selection in the third round.
Most Wins by a Yankees’ Pitcher to Start a Season, 1920-2010
| Pitcher | Start | End | G | W | IP | ERA |
| Ron Guidry | 4/13/1978 | 7/2/1978 | 13 | 13 | 108 | 1.50 |
| Atley Donald | 5/9/1939 | 7/25/1939 | 12 | 12 | 100 | 2.07 |
| Tom Zachary | 5/7/1929 | 9/24/1929 | 12 | 12 | 85.1 | 1.48 |
| Steve Sundra | 4/23/1939 | 9/20/1939 | 11 | 11 | 82.2 | 2.40 |
| Aaron Small | 7/20/2005 | 9/29/2005 | 10 | 10 | 57.2 | 3.43 |
| Tommy John | 4/8/1979 | 5/20/1979 | 9 | 9 | 71.1 | 1.51 |
| Jim Coates | 4/19/1960 | 6/29/1960 | 9 | 9 | 77.2 | 2.43 |
| Whitey Ford | 7/17/1950 | 9/25/1950 | 9 | 9 | 76.1 | 1.53 |
| Orlando Hernandez | 7/11/2004 | 9/11/2004 | 8 | 8 | 51 | 2.29 |
| Bob Wickman | 4/9/1993 | 6/20/1993 | 8 | 8 | 58.1 | 1.54 |
Source: Baseball-reference.com
Over his first three seasons, Guidry struggled with his command in the low minors, walking 147 men in only 214 innings. Meanwhile, the team had been bought by a brash new owner named George Steinbrenner, who jumped into the free agent pool head first. Instead of developing young players, particularly pitchers, Steinbrenner preferred to make a big splash by acquiring established veterans. So, the Yankees added names like Dick Tidrow, Rudy May and Pat Dobson to fill out their rotation and converted the slow-to-develop lefty into a reliever.
After an uneasy transition to his new role in 1974, Guidry finally seemed to turn the corner the following season as a closer in Triple-A Syracuse. In 62 innings, Guidry recorded 14 saves and 76 strikeouts, and was eventually promoted to the big club at the end of the year.
Guidry appeared in only 10 games as a Yankee in 1975, but managed to impress General Manager Gabe Paul. Unfortunately, he still had several doubters in the organization, including the Boss, who often questioned both his diminutive size and, ironically, his toughness. So, despite a solid spring training in 1976, the now 25-year old lefty was once again optioned to the minors.
Guidry took his demotion in stride and absolutely dominated the opposition in the International League, eventually earning a call-up on May 20. The next day, he saw his first game action against the Red Sox, but only lasted one-third of an inning. With the team already trailing 4-2 in the ninth, Guidry allowed four runs, including a two-run homer to Carl Yastrzemski.
Earlier in that same game, the two rivals engaged in what could only be described as a melee. Fights broke out all over the field, and in the aftermath, the Red Sox learned that their ace left hander Bill Lee had suffered a serious shoulder injury. Amid all the controversy stemming from the brawl, Guidry’s inauspicious debut went mostly unnoticed…except by the Boss. Angered by the fight, and more importantly the loss, Steinbrenner fumed at Guidry’s ninth inning meltdown and suggested it proved what he had suspected all along: the skinny kid from Louisiana had no guts.
Over the next 46 games, Guidry served a quasi-punishment as he toiled in the bullpen without ever appearing in a game. Fortunately, the neglected lefty used his free time to learn a new pitch from veteran Sparky Lyle. During his hiatus, Guidry worked on the slider that would eventually make him one of the best pitchers in baseball, but he almost never got the chance to use it.

Steinbrenner didn't always have Guidry's back. On several occasions, the Boss had to be talked out of trading the young lefty.
On July 7, Guidry was sent back to Syracuse because, as Billy Martin explained, he wasn’t getting enough work. Frustrated by the lack of opportunity, Guidry momentarily decided that he would quit. As Guidry and his wife Bonnie headed west on Interstate-80, his intended destination was Lafayette, but after some words of encouragement from his better half, the left hander turned the car around and reported on time to Syracuse.
Although Guidry once again dominated at triple-A, his return to the Bronx on August 7 was almost as ugly as his appearance in May. After surrendering three runs in three innings to the Orioles, you couldn’t have blamed Guidry if his first postgame reflex was to gas up the car, but the Yankees stuck with him over the rest of the season.
After losing the World Series to the Reds, the Yankees actively sought to make improvements, and the man Steinbrenner seemed most eager to trade was Guidry. On several occasions, Paul had to talk the Boss out of giving the talented lefty away, but his resistance seemed futile after Guidry had a horrendous spring training in 1977.
“‘O.K., George,’ Paul said. ‘If you want to trade Guidry, I’ll agree to it under one condition: that you issue a press release saying that I, Gabe Paul, unalterably oppose the trade and that you, George Steinbrenner, insist on it, and that when—not if, but when—Ron Guidry becomes an outstanding major league pitcher for another team, you take the blame.’” – Sam Moses, Sports Illustrated, January 22, 1979
Somehow, Paul was able to keep Steinbrenner from trading Guidry, and eventually, his years of patience were rewarded. Following a handful of solid relief outings, Guidry was given a spot start on April 29 when newly acquired Mike Torrez failed to show up on time (one report stated he was attending to his wife who just gave birth, but another claimed he went fishing with his agent). Torrez’ tardiness was the opportunity Guidry needed. Over 8 1/3 innings, the electric lefty mowed down the Seattle Mariners, surrendering just two hits and no runs while striking out eight.
Guidry would eventually become a permanent part of the rotation in 1977, and then the following year, Louisiana Lightning was born when he turned in one of the best single seasons in franchise history. A long and arduous road to the majors had finally paid off for Guidry and the Yankees.
Top-10 Seasons by a Yankees’ Pitcher, 1901-2010 (Ranked by WAR)
| Player | WAR | Year | Age | IP | W | L | SO | ERA | ERA+ |
| Russ Ford | 9 | 1910 | 27 | 299.2 | 26 | 6 | 209 | 1.65 | 160 |
| Lefty Gomez | 8.9 | 1937 | 28 | 278.1 | 21 | 11 | 194 | 2.33 | 191 |
| Jack Chesbro | 8.8 | 1904 | 30 | 454.2 | 41 | 12 | 239 | 1.82 | 148 |
| Ron Guidry | 8.5 | 1978 | 27 | 273.2 | 25 | 3 | 248 | 1.74 | 208 |
| Lefty Gomez | 8.1 | 1934 | 25 | 281.2 | 26 | 5 | 158 | 2.33 | 176 |
| Andy Pettitte | 7.6 | 1997 | 25 | 240.1 | 18 | 7 | 166 | 2.88 | 156 |
| Catfish Hunter | 7.6 | 1975 | 29 | 328 | 23 | 14 | 177 | 2.58 | 144 |
| Herb Pennock | 7 | 1924 | 30 | 286.1 | 21 | 9 | 101 | 2.83 | 147 |
| Bob Shawkey | 6.9 | 1920 | 29 | 267.2 | 20 | 13 | 126 | 2.45 | 156 |
| David Cone | 6.7 | 1997 | 34 | 195 | 12 | 6 | 222 | 2.82 | 159 |
| Mel Stottlemyre | 6.7 | 1965 | 23 | 291 | 20 | 9 | 155 | 2.63 | 129 |
Source: Baseball-reference.com
In many ways, Joba Chamberlain’s career path has been similar to Guidry’s. Although there are certainly some significant differences (particularly Chamberlain’s shorter path to the majors as well as his immediate success before experiencing failure) between the two, the major themes compare: both were late bloomers on the amateur level; experienced shifting roles within the organization; disappointed early in their career; and faced intense scrutiny of both their psychological and physical makeup. What remains to be seen, however, is whether Chamberlain’s story will end up like Guidry’s.
The Yankees haven’t exactly given up on Chamberlain just yet, but it sure seems like they are getting close. Once thought to be either a future ace or dominant closer, Joba is now fighting for a role in middle relief. Even Brian Cashman, who was once a vocal supporter, has started to sound a little bit leery, going so far as to suggest that the righty isn’t even guaranteed a spot on the 2011 roster.
Perhaps sensing the Yankees’ growing frustration with Chamberlain, you can bet several other teams will be sniffing around, hoping the Yankees will pull the trigger on a deal born of exasperation. What seems to be forgotten, however, is Chamberlain is still only 25, or one year younger than Guidry when he had his breakout season in 1977. Contrary to growing popular sentiment (among fans, media and even some in the organization), Chamberlain’s career is not in decline. In fact, it hasn’t even started.
The baseball landscape is littered with pitching prospects who never panned out. So, it wouldn’t be a shock if Chamberlain never develops beyond his current role in middle relief. However, the story of Ron Guidry should still serve as a cautionary tale. When it comes to developing pitchers, patience really is a virtue. Like any good fairytale, the early trials and tribulations are what make the final outcome all the more worthwhile.
Guidry’s story also offers a few lessons for Joba as well. Despite his early struggles and the organizations lack of confidence, Guidry remained focused on his craft. Not only did he use his time in the bullpen to learn from a veteran like Lyle (perhaps learning a cutter from Mariano Rivera wouldn’t be such a bad idea), but the skinny Cajun dedicated himself to getting stronger. In fact, he was often regarded as the team’s best athlete and cited as the player most likely to be found working out in the gym.
Does Chamberlain have that same level of dedication as Guidry? If not, he’ll have no one to blame but himself if his career ends in failure. Meanwhile, the question for the Yankees is whether they have closed the book on the young righty’s future? If so, the public scorn will be theirs if Chamberlain writes a final, triumphant chapter with another team. Hopefully, neither scenario will play out, allowing Chamberlain and the Yankees to share success instead of blame. After all, that is how fairy tales are supposed to end.
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great article – we needed that
“the Yankees had a promising young pitching prospect who was inexplicably converted into a late inning reliever”
Didn’t seem so inexplicable in 2007 when they needed abridge to Mariano. Did you forget that in your haste to paint the yankee handling with the same tired brush?
Low and behold, the next year he was in the rotation. He got hurt. It does not seem that he has been the same pitcher since… in the rotation or from the pen.
Damn, you guys are turning into the MSM. Can’t think of something to write? No problem. Lets rehash the Joba situation again.
Were you able to make it past that first paragraph? If so, you’d probably have realized that the sentence you quoted was referring to Ron Guidry, not Joba Chamberlain.
I don’t mind criticism, but usually prefer when it is accurate.
Good article. Two things could change the end result with Joba: he’s in terrible shape and Gator was in great shape (he probably still is.) The other is that both Cashman and Girardi see him as a BP guy period. I disagree with that assessment, but he may have already used up his chances to start. If he wasn’t in the mix for the rotation this year, he’s not likely to next year (the year of the B’s?)
Good points…there is still time for Joba to get his act together though, so if anything, he has the most to learn from this story.
I also agree that Joba’s chances to start have nearly been exhausted, but Guidry was pretty much in the same boat. After all, he only got a spot start because Torrez failed to report on time. If the Yanks had any intention of making him a starter, maybe they wouldn’t have traded for Torrez in the first place?
Considering the questions in the Yankees rotation, maybe they will be forced to give Joba one last crack at the rotation. Their vocal resistance may be more about motivating Joba to get his act together and less evidence of their resignation to him as a reliever (especially a middle reliever).
On the issue of complacency, that’s where the two situations are very different. Guidry wiled away in obscurity until his breakout seasons in 77-78. However, Joba came up as a 21 year old and set the world on fire. Ever since, there has been a question whether it was too much, too soon, and Joba has done little to alleviate those fears.
i wonder if every team has a list of bad trades they almost made. the yankee history under steinbrenner seems to be littered with them. maybe an article on the best 10 trades never made?
I am sure you could do an impressive top-10 for every team. Recently, I did something about the Yankees repeated attempts to trade Cano. Imagine if any one of those went through? http://t.co/wPHCZUX
Finally got around to reading this post from Friday. And I have to say, it really has helped temper my own quick expectations from Joba. It is amazing what perspective can do for or against an argument.
I think the unfortunate problem for Joba’s development, is that the Yankee organization (not necessarily all the fans and such) puts a high premium on winning right that second on the highest level. Obviously that is what we want, but not sacrificing years of success, is what I take away from this post.
Great post and thanks!