This is not official yet, but rumors (from reliable sources) going around the Twitterverse have been reporting that Cliff Lee turned down the Yankees’ approximately 7-year 154 million dollar offer for a 5-year 115 million dollar deal from the Phillies, a team that virtually nobody thought was even in on Lee. It’s a bizarre turn of events because the Phillies traded Lee last year after he wouldn’t sign an extension with them, but evidently these things can change. It’s unusual to see players leave money and years on the table (especially that much money), but I can’t fault Lee for turning down the money and going where he wanted to be. I also can’t fault Brian Cashman here. He did his job and gave Lee the highest offer, but evidently, Lee didn’t want to go to New York. It’s unfortunate for the Yankees and Brian Cashman, who did his job and gave Lee the (presumed) highest offer.
So what’s next for the Yankees after this bombshell? The Yankee rotation without Lee looks dangerously thin, and Cashman’s next task will likely be to beg Andy Pettitte to hold off retirement for one more year. With Pettite, the rotation of Sabathia, Petttitte, Burnett (hopefully cured by Larry Rothschild), Hughes and Nova could still be playoff-worthy, but I imagine the Yankees will look to add another arm. The free-agent market is pretty barren, with the best remaining guy, Carl Pavano, standing virtually zero chance of signing with the Yankees (and the Yankees probably don’t want him back either).
To acquire a frontline starter, the Yankees will probably have to look at the trade market. A lot of speculation will revolve around Royals ace Zack Greinke, but I imagine that Dayton Moore’s high price will prevent a deal from happening, as he’ll try to chisel the seemingly desperate Yankees. A Greinke deal would have to start with a Montero-caliber prospect, but the Royals already have an all-hit no-field catching prospect in Wil Myers, and the Yankee system lacks up-the-middle prospects that the Royals would covet. I’m not sure who else could be made available, but there’s no ace-caliber arm on the trade market other than Greinke. There may be concerns about how Greinke with his social anxiety disorder will be able to handle New York, but I wouldn’t let that get in the way of acquiring him if the price is right.
I doubt it will happen, but I think the Yankees should consider moving Joba Chamberlain back to the rotation. Is it a panic move? Maybe, but one with significant upside. I think Joba still has the ability to be as good as if not better than pretty much any non-Greinke pitcher the Yankees could bring in. Barring a trade for a frontline starter, it is an option that must be explored, because an 8th-inning guy is so much less valuable than a solid starter. I know he’s been in the bullpen for a full season, but we’ve seen less talented relievers become successful starters (CJ Wilson and Ryan Dempster for example), and it’s worth a shot to see if Joba can rediscover his mojo in the rotation.
Are the 2011 Yankees worse without Cliff Lee? Almost certainly. Are there some silver linings? A few. As EJ has alluded to, signing Lee to a big contract would be committing big dollars to another player in his 30′s who is on the wrong side of his prime. By avoiding the contract, the Yankees could maintain flexibility, allowing them to shell out for the next big free agent (and preferably, one who’s not 32). Additionally, they may get to keep their first-round pick in a loaded draft (unless they do something stupid like signing a Type-A reliever). Also, Lee’s signing with Philly means that he’s not making a potential AL rival stronger. Finally, the Yankees are returning pretty much the entirety of a 95-win team, while adding their top prospect into the catching mix. Convinced? Neither am I. I would have loved to have Lee in the rotation, and I believe that he could have held up pretty well over the duration of the contract.
As Yankee fans, we’re used to getting everything we want. For once, however, we’ll have to watch the shiny new toy we desperately wanted go somewhere else. And it stings. Regardless, it’s premature to panic and concede the season and the division to an improved Boston squad. There will be bridge-jumpers and alarmists, but this is still a good Yankee club, and they still have to play the games. Is there such thing as a 200 million dollar underdog? There may be now. Russell Martin here we come!
Update: Apparently the Rangers’ final offer may have been a little higher than the Yanks’. 6-year offer with a vesting option for a total of 161 million.
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74 Responses to Reports: Lee takes his talents to Philly
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TIQ IQ
Please….one last push…. Joba to the rotation!
I’m pretty stunned. It turns out that Heyman was right all along with the mystery team stuff.
Has a player ever turned down $50 million? Hell, has anyone ever turned down $50 million?
Apparently he has an easily reachable vesting option for a 6th year but yeah I don’t know how you throw that money away.
Can we just give the Phillies the World Series? Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and Hamels!
If our offer was 22 mil per year (with a 16 mil player option for the 7th) and Lee just signed on for 24 then we did not really have the best offer considering that Lee will have a far easier time pitching in the NL East and will probably maintain better numbers for his next contract. Plus he signs with a solid defensive catcher.
I also doubt our 5 year offer was at 125. Basically the Phillies out bid us.
I’m surprised we did not offer 6/144… I guess Cash didn’t see the need to blow him out of the water. I disagree with that, but hey.
Yeah that was when reports were that he had signed for 5 years 100 million which would have been a major discount but in reality it was 5 for 120 million which is the best offer on the table as you were saying.
Thats what Yankees fans get for spitting on Cliff Lee’s wife. : )
I’m sure that was the reason over a ring with one of the best rotations of the decade possibly.
Please no hasty moves Cash. Hopefully Cash doesn’t sign Martin and ship off Montero. Just get/stay with both and don’t panic. Might as well see what Webb’s got.
I was thinking Webb too but did he say he was looking for 10 million this year since Sheets got that last year?
Then there’s also Garza, but I don’t know if the Rays will do it.
I wouldn’t do it if I was them unless I got EVERYTHING because if Garza comes back to haunt you and your deal is just OK you’ll be fired as a GM.
I can’t believe Cliff Lee chose the Phillies, he had a great run in philly in 2009 but to leave that kind of money on the table seems foolish…I don’t know how they do it, they hoodwink washington into signing werth for way too much and now they get lee below market value. Amaro is an evil genius.
Is anyone else relieved?
great news…out of the AL, lets wait till july and see what comes up..lets not hand philly the prize yet..oh and i tip my hat to lee for going with his heart instead of being greedy..he is a class act..
i had posted ,i knew he did not want to play in NY…we were third at best..
Sounds more like he went with pitching staff/rings not family.
I did as well a few days ago when he hadn’t decided Saturday if you take that long with that kind of money your just hoping someone else comes along.
I said it during the playoffs last year… all I want is to beat Lee in to the ground, not have him on my team, there’s something to be said for old school rivalries and players hating each other… I doubt any yankee has any animosity for Lee but I do…. put Joba in the rotation!
Jon Heyman reported early tonight before this story that the Yankees weren’t hopefull he would sign and there plan B is to “agressively spend money on the pen” if true I love this idea, we have enough money now to bring in Wood, Fuentes and maybe even Feliciano to compete with Logan.
that is a good plan b, but downs should have been signed, i thought for sure he was on cash’s top priority list.. great arm..
No way! Downs was a type A free agent so he costs a first round pick but Fuentes is type B so we don’t actually lose anything, from what I read Cashman never even called Downs for that reason.
chris ,i would give a pick for downs, no problem..we have wait 4 years to see if the pick makes it..downs is AL east proven right now
He is also 34 years old and got a 3 year deal for 15 million… Remember how the Damaso Marte deal of 3 years 12 million turned out?
Didn’t you just criticize the Yankees trying to over pay Lee and thinking he’s only good right now?
I’ll keep the pick and they can over pay for a lefty out of the pen, Fuentes is just as dominant against lefties and has closed before.
I find it highly overrated that a lefty reliever “pitched in the AL East’ like lefty relievers in the NL face pitchers or something, they face the best lefty the other team has regardless of league so it really doesn’t matter. I only care about “can he handle the east” when it’s a starter because you go from facing a pitcher to David Ortiz.
Fuentes Vs lefties last 3 years .192/.259/.234 1 HR, 14 BBs, 51 Ks in 167 ABs.
Fuentes Vs righties last 3 years .224/.313/.371 13 HR, 52 BBs, 124 Ks in 442 ABs.
With 102 saves out of 117 save ops. in that time span.
5mil ,i’m sure we would have paid to have down’s vs texas in the playoffs ..we may have gone to the WS if we had him..but you have your opinion..like ,if i hear you right the NL hitters are comparable to the AL east hitters..then we can never agree..the NL can not compare on a whole to the AL..and that would be 15mil compared to 160mil..come on chris you know better, are you just cranky at 3 am
and marte would never have gotten 3 years from me,i didn’t sign him/.
A lefty reliever wouldn’t have made a difference unless he could start and hit because we did neither effectively…
I didn’t say that at all… I said the best players are the best players regardless of what league they play in, is Albert Pujols not the best hitter in baseball? He plays for the NL, if Joey Votto not one of the most dominating lefties in the game? He plays for the NL, id Ryan Braun, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins or Hanley Ramirez considered bad because they don’t play in the AL?
Apparently you can’t read at 3 AM ;)
puljos has great stuff, he just didn’t get caught yet..and we can’t gauge any of those guys ,they don’t play in the AL..they are good players, look at a guy named matt holliday,check his NL stats to his AL stats..
Apparently Cliff called the Rangers front office in person to inform them of his decision but had his agent call Cashman and break the news.
a real slap at the yankee’s offered a 160 mil, plus TV and other income…i give him a lot of credit.. and not get on the phone yourself..if this was football his photo would be on the wall in the club house until he retired..
Why are you giving him credit? He refused to call them in person, that shows me what kind of man he really is.
the credit i give him, is not caving into selling his ass to the highest bidder..the era of greed and me, he chose a place that means more than money..or stupid money..i posted it was a slap,but he was not a yank that left he was a yank in everyone’s mind because we all thought he could be bought..i hope cash learns from this..randy johnson kevin brown roger clemens et. al.. they all should have never had a yankee jersey on.
As quoted “greed is good!”
If anything he is an idiot for not taking more money hahaha I would be a Yankee, Red Sox, Nippon Haam whatever they want for that kind of cash.
I never said he was a Yankee but it doesnt matter who you are to call the Rangers in person but have a 3rd party do your dirty work for you with Cashman is just not something I would do and thus can’t respect, it has nothing to do with where he signs.
You do know we won a World Series with Roger right? Also we traded for Brown and Johnson it was the Dodgers who gave Brown the money.
greed is good for greedy people, but not a sign of a class act..i know you do not mean that..how many steaks can he eat? he went with his heart and still ids super rich.chris ,you just said for greed you would sign any where, so why would you care to pick up a phone to call people you had no regard for??.. he is making it abundantly cleat to the yanks ,i wanted no part of you..ever..thank god for the gm with seattle for not making that trade..we would have lost all those kids and him now. then it would have been a total failure..and chris we lost with roger, we won 26 without him..we did not win all because of roger..never liked him or wanted him..and we beat the mets, they stunk..
Greed is good doesn’t = be a dick haha
Classy? That’s not what I call leaving money on the table… Who cares how many steaks you can or can’t eat a swimming pool full of jello-o doesn’t fill itself!
If a team offered me a cheeseburger to play baseball and another team offered me 6 bucks I’d call the cheeseburger people and tell them thank you but no thank you, if someone is willing to throw that kind of cheddar at you they deserve a phone call.
If we had traded for him he probably would have stayed because he would have played with the team for 3 months and we probably win the world series or are in it’ either way I’m glad we didn’t make that deal I was pissed when I heard we might trade Montero!
Just because you have a “Roger Clemens” that I bet mysteriously showed up after he left New York and went to court doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been on the team, Andy and David Wells were on the staff that lost to the Marlins as well should they not have been Yankees?
chris we are not talking about jello and cheeseburgers..100million dollars plus..peace of mind and being happy at that point are more important..and you are not getting the point..he played for three months with the rangers they thought the same as you, they lost smoak and others, he knew what and where he needed to play..ryan got screwed thinking that,phone call or no phone call,ask ryan behind closed doors if he really wanted his phone call after kissing this guys ass, the gm blasting NY, throwing everything but his wife’s ass at lee..he is fuming right now, unless him and bush are drinking wild turkey somewhere cursing the whole northeast.it was a clear message to the yanks..he used the yankee’s like maddux did and i said he would from day one..this is not a surprise that he didn’t sign with us. chris you don’t get it/ roger was never a yankee in his heart..wells was .he loved NY. andy is a yank ..that bum is nothing but a carpetbagger, fraud..i never liked his act and now dispise him.
Jon Heyman reports the final deal is 5 years 120 million with a vesting option for the 6th, he also says that Lee wanted to be a Philly so bad HE initiated the calls.
see that’s what i mean..lets put his picture up in the locker room, maybe our hitters can get mad instead of melting at the sight of him..
Who cares what he does? Getting “mad” before hitting if anything would make you try too hard and fail at your goal, we want our hitters to ignore the name on the back of the jersey and just hit the ball’ too much is made of “rivals” these days.
it is called being motivated chris..and if you ever played any sport you would understand son..you have a little fight in you, you like to challenge everything everyone says..not just me,,so i now understand you..try to keep an open mind..not take everything personal when your opinion differs .. you are great with stats which i respect..i am not an all out stat guy..
if you like to argue all the time get married.. you will love it..
I played high school football until I had a heat stroke and was forced to quit I understand motivation I’m a human being it really isn’t a special emotion only a few select few posses. However football differs from baseball because in football you can hit and use your body to get the emotions out, in baseball you have to control those emotions so you don’t think about things that will mess you up.
Hey man I was having fun talking with you today and the past few days I guess I was wrong and you were mad the whole time… Sorry but I didn’t take a single word said personal at all I’m not sure where your getting that but ok’ I’m sorry again and I wont respond to you since that’s apparently what you want if I disagree.
Marriage isn’t for me but thanks I don’t feel like getting divorced and losing half of the stuff I actually have.
At no point in my life have I been an “all out stat guy” I actually tend to lean towards what my eyes show me a lot more than stats but they are very useful in checking what you think you know.
chris i love a good debate and learn from your stats, and i am not mad..we are passionate fans with the same dreams..yanks win every year..debate is healthy ..i like engaging with you,but at times you have a hard time seeing other points then you get annoyed..again i learn from your stats and can’t believe how you get them so fast..keep it coming ..i have a very open mind , i learn everyday.. and ,again my opinion..i played everything, from football to marbles..my fire was the same for all of them..i played everything mad..until the game was over..when i played football i didn’t talk to anyone on my own offense..it is called heart..what some lack in natural ability ,comes from that fire ,,it does get figured in ..no matter what you do in life..but please lets stay engaged ,just not in an attacking manner
When and who did I attack? I would love to see the quote with name calling, bullying or threats?
I say no a lot but so what? I ask rhetorical questions at time but again so what? I haven’t been “mad” or “angry” at a person on this site and then two people at once get angry, once again sorry if you feel that way but I’m not going to change myself because someone on the internet told me to (no offense but really that wouldn’t make sense).
I like debates somehow people take that personal because I disagree with them like I’m suppose to just agree in order to keep from hurting someones feelings, you don’t learn unless someone calls you out, same with me. I got my butt handed to me in that Bert Blyleven Vs Jack Morris debate but once I saw I was way wrong that was that I learned something new and felt better for it but I had I not stated my opinion I would have still believed something false.
Also some people may play with hate but most baseball players don’t go to batters box trying to kill the pitcher, look at Alex every time he tries too hard to do something he presses but when he takes the pressure off himself and just plays ball he is one of the best hitters in history juice or not, different strokes my friend, different strokes,
No problemo.
Now PETTITTE returns and hopefully we have patience, pitch the kids stay close and either they step up or we find a pitcher later on when they come cheap in terms of players.
Burnett will get better with a new pitching Coach.
I think Pettitte is way more likely to retire now, why go through another season when your body is starting to wear down just to pitch? If he had a chance to win the World Series I could see it but it’s a stretch now in my opinion.
I’m hoping we turn this into Russell Martin, Wood and Fuentes and like you say stick with Nova and Mitre/Joba/Brackman/Noesi and see if we can get someone at the trade deadline or next winter.
I really don’t see how Sox fans are happy about this, isn’t Lee on the Phillies a better team than Lee on the Yankees with that rotation?
If I was a Sox fan, I would be happy too… might as well hand them the division with this team. Let’s not fool ourselves: Joba, Mitre, Noesi, Nova… that’s a joke. You know who sounds good now? Hiroki Kuroda, Ted Lilly, John Danks… they’re all much better than those guys the Yankees have right now.
Only way I see the Yankees making a solid run at the Series, is a combination of great years by Granderson, A-Rod, Jeter and Tex. Cano having a 2nd MVP caliber season, Montero beeing everything that we expect of him and SOMEHOW AJ Burnett finding some sort of mojo, Pettitte coming back and we building a solid pen, with Wood, Feliciano, etc…
Kuroda is 38 and has never pitched outside the NL…
Ted Lilly is a terrible option for an AL East team at this point in his career…
John Danks is a great starter but since the White Sox are trying to win this year why would they trade him? I wouldn’t trade Montero or the B’s for him.
pettitte is not the answer, this guy can break down again..or get lit up..i really feel we will not get 200 innings from him…if we are lucky we get 150.. it is just my gut..and he will come back for that 11 or 12 mil.. like someone posted, spend on the pen and wait it out till july
He’s already rich he wont come back just for money, he has kids you know and all summer when they are off he pitches and when he’s off they go back to school wouldn’t be surprised at all if he stays home.
me i hope he stays home..we need to figure out our future not just a fill in..that may break down. but would rather have him that some has been or rethread that bounced around baseball
Yeah but Andy is great with young kids and could really show the Nova’s and the Brackman’s of the world how to carry yourself on a diamond.
you are right but not for 11 or 12 mil
I agree but combined with 170 innings it would be worth it IMO because if we get the wild card it’s always nice to have Andy around, even this year he did well and he had no time to prepare at all.
I agree he will more than likely be injured but if he only misses the same amount of time as this year it would be worth it, I would just prefer he miss the games earlier.
Andy was worth 2.3 WAR this season I think he could duplicate that number next year and that isn’t bad for a number 4 pitcher.
Happiest Cliff Lee fan on the planet right now? Ivan Nova… Kid knows it’s his spot to lose.
I’m seeing on TV Yanks went 6 for 138 so the Rangers did out bid us by a bit…
The upside the Rays aren’t as good and though it will be tough we can make the Wild Card if we stay healthy (doesn’t every team have to stay healthy?) And if someone like the Marlins are out of it by the break maybe we can get Josh Johnson but I really really hope we can keep Montero for the long term!
man…. I’m so depressed right now. Just depressed. Would’ve loved to see this guy in pinstripes, pitching alongside Sabathia and – who knows – Pettitte.
Anyone know when David Price is a FA, so we can throw all that money Lee turned down, at him???
WOW, your depressed because a pitcher that didn’t want to be a Yankee took less money to go somewhere else? I say good riddance.
I believe Price has 4 years of team service left, sorry but it’s not really an option.
Yeah! You’re the image of a guy beeing all cool about this whole deal. You don’t sound desperate at all with your ~20 comments, just on this Topic…
Remember the times when I used to be allowed to feel bad about not having a player I like in my team, and to say I feel that way in an online forum about that team?
If you read this blog at all you know I comment about 100 times on everything and half the time I have more comments than all the other posters combined so your point shows nothing other than you don’t visit this site at all.
Remember the time people use to disagree with other peoples ideas without them taking it as a personal attack because their on the internet?
ok then… if you want to go down this road, have fun. I’m not going down to your level.
Just try to consider the following fact: maybe, sometimes, other people than you have a valid point or are not as wrong in their remarks as you seem to think. You comment more that anyone because you think your’re right about everything, and no other point is valid, when compared to your “absolute truth”.
like I said…. have fun…
I’m sorry you took the post the wrong way man, apparently you took something really personal out of it and I can only say that’s not the intent and I think you probably know that.
I post a lot because I love arguing baseball but I can see you have no interest in doing that just posting a comment and not having a response, once again sorry.
I also try and back up everything I have ever said on this site and in this particular instance most of these posts pertain to the deal and new information learned.
Me and Born have been going back and forth for a while now and neither of us take it personal so if that’s what you are looking at I think you have the wrong idea.
I get it now..!. You took the WOW personal, how I didn’t think of that before escapes me…
Really was meant just more for a starting point and I really wasn’t thinking about how you might take it, if that’s what it was sorry but it really was like the least important thing I could have typed haha.
Which means what exactly? He was a dominating lefty who we signed for 3 years, it’s the same scenario and could end up the exact same way.
Looks like he only left 28 million on the table and got more per year from the Phillies than he could with the Yankees, that makes a ton more since than signing at 5 years 100 million I probably still couldn’t do it but it’s much closer than 50 million initially reported.
God I love Wild Turkey! HAHA side note I know.
Jello and Cheeseburgers is not suppose to be serious… You do realize I’m not in a “heated” mode right now right haha.
All I’m saying is you apparently are good with x amount of dollars, me? I want more, more, more because you never know when you have the chance to bank like that again.
I don’t care if he was never a Yankee at heart what does that have to do with anything? Arod, Granderson, Swisher, CC, Wood and Teixeira weren’t drafted by the Yankees and I don’t really see how they are “Yankees in” anything other than uniforms could be wrong though, maybe they do really love the Yanks but either way they don’t play better because of it.
Check the park he played in in the NL (Coors) and check out the park he went too (Oakland) and if you don’t think we can judge Pujols or those particular guys yet your drinking too much AL Cool-AID, yes the AL is better but the talent level at the top doesn’t drop, the greats are the greats in either league.
puljos is the best player in the game..i agree..but i think he is a major juicer..paul o’niel is one of my favorite players all time he was a yankee, not drafted, reggie was a yankee..tino ,i can keep going..how you don’t see what i am saying is curious ..
Your saying Roger didn’t care about the Yankees just himself and his records/money… I just don’t care most athletes are that way and very few bleed for the team.
I won’t touch the juicing.
and this was how we started tonight,,you just fought my position..lee did not take ranger or yankee dollars he went where he was happy..talk to you tomorrow son
How? my whole point was that I would take the money….
You seem to be confused about my original point I don’t think it was “bad thing” for him to do from a human being stand point I just think not calling Cashman in person but doing it for the Rangers is kind of classless, as you said he basically is telling them how little he wanted to be a Yankee. However with that said do you think I would be unhappy if he signed here just for the money? No, I would be unhappy with 7 years (anything past 5 is turrible *in Charles Barkley voice*) but I would welcome him and his money to the rotation.
I really don’t care why they play fame, money, love of the game, team loyalty it doesn’t matter just as long as you play and play well and a lot of players don’t even have to like their team to play well, teams have won the World Series hating each other. Hal the 1919 White Sox infield didn’t speak to the other half.
BTW the smugness doesn’t come off as nice as you think it does :)
you can also say the reggie yanks..ask jeter if he feels sorry for cash that lee did not call him..
This is business no one feels sorry for anyone ever I understand that I’m just saying to me it’s not a “classy” thing to do in your words, he got offered a job by the man at least have the courtesy to tell him no in person, I would never have my friend call an employer and tell them I wasn’t interested in the position. It may be uncomfortable but it’s part of what a man does (things he doesn’t want to do).
Reggie reminds me of another example…
Reggie Jackson sure didn’t play for the pinstripes and yet he’s Mr October, of course now he always hangs around the cages and what not now but the old Reggie was all about Reggie.
Rickey Henderson one of my favorite players of all time played for Rickey and Rickey was “the greatest of all time”.
He makes a good point right?
You say the Royals already have a good-hit, no-field catching prospect…but at least theirs will play RF if he’s not a catcher. Myers is not religated to1B/DH like Montero, so don’t discount the Royals interest.
Actually, Eric Hosmer combined with Billy Butler may be more of an issue than Myers if Montero moves.