The news broke late last night, the mystery team was real after all and it proved to be the Phillies. There were reports that Cliff Lee let it be known in recent days that his first preference would a return to Philadelphia, and the two sides worked out an agreement for 5 years and 120 mil, with a reachable 6th year option. Here’s some quick reactions:
-For potential trade targets (and a glimpse at next year’s FA class) check out the MLBTR 2012 Free Agent list. It’s not a great class, but with Pujols looking for a monster extension maybe someone like Chris Carpenter can be had on a 1 year rental. Most of the rest of that list is either old, uninspiring, or unlikely to be had with the various contract options attached.
-Until Andy Pettitte comes back, as Yankee fans we have to admit the Red Sox are clearly the better team. The lineups are comparable, but the rotations aren’t close as things stand right now. Even once Andy comes back, I’ll give the edge to the BoSox. But at least then it’s a fight, right now it isn’t. Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova simply aren’t as good as Clay Bucholtz and Dice-K.
-No faulting Brian Cashman here. He met with Lee twice and offered him more money than anyone else. MLBTR has the details:
Crasnick hears the Yankees offered a deal that guaranteed Lee $132MM over six years, plus a $16MM player option for a seventh year (Twitter link). At $148MM guaranteed, that was the highest bid. The Rangers offered $138MM over six years, and their proposal included a vesting option that could have brought the value of the deal to $161MM, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown (Twitter links).
I must admit I’m surprised at how aggressive the Rangers were, but it didn’t matter. Lee just didn’t want to pitch here or in Texas, and took anywhere from 28-41 mil less to go back to Philly.
-As depressed as you might be right now as a Yankee fan, think about rooting for the team across town. The Mets plan on doing nothing this off season, and already project to be at the bottom of their division. Now the best team in their division just got MUCH better. The Met rebuilding plan should target 2015 as the next year they have a realistic shot at winning the division.
-Philly must be a great place to play and/or their GM Ruben Amaro has a knack with getting great 32 year pitchers to sign below market. First Roy Halladay signs a below market deal, now Cliff Lee. Their rotation is now unstoppable with a top 4 of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels. That’s easily the best top 4 in the game, and paired with their offense all they need to do is stay healthy and the National League is almost a forgone conclusion. Never know in a short series, but that’s as good as it gets. Their only question is age, seems like most of the key elements are 32 and older, but they could be a dynasty for the next few years.
If you enjoyed this article, please consider sharing it!
28 Responses to Lee heads back to Philly, Yanks head back to drawing board
Leave a Reply
TIQ IQ
You have to give the Phillies TONS of credit here! They pulled a Yankee type move here they know their core is aging (as you said) and they know they need to go all in now and they think they have they have the farm to replinish themselves when they get old (and they probably do) so all credit goes to them.
I always get mad at fans for getting mad at the Yankees for spending money so when another team does it like this it just shows how overblown the whole “Yankees buy championships” speech is we all hear.
Tip of the cap to the Phils and I’d love to get a crack at Halladay and Lee in the series!!
As for Lee I don’t fault the decision at all (can’t fault a man for making 24 mil a year) but I do think it was a little classless to not call Cashman in person but do so for the Rangers, he played there so I understand being more comfortable with that GM but still as a man I would hope I would not do the same in his situation, you may not want their money but they are offering a lot so the least you can do is say thanks but no thanks IMO.
On a personal note is Philly full of winners or what? Vick, Halladay and now Lee again, I gotta check that city out because I hear their cheesesteaks are to die for as well.
Apparently Lee was the one who initiated this by letting his feelings be known somehow. As the Philly GM, you have to figure out a way to get this done with your budget.
Not sure about Lee being “a little classless” with how he handled this. He has no ties and therefore no obligations to the Yanks. I have no issue with that.
As far as the Yanks go now, I’m looking at a 1 year stopgap like Carpenter or Nolasco (whoever is cheaper) and waiting on the Killer B’s. Hopefully one or two of them can contribute somehow this year.
I read that on Jon Heyman’s reports… MLB rumor along those same lines says the Phils are trying to dump Ibanez and Blanton while paying “some” of their salary to make some cash room.
Not in how he handled the contract stuff just simply personally getting on a phone and calling Texas but then having his manager call Cash, maybe classless is too far but something about it just seems off putting. Either call both or neither but to call one and not the other just comes off like you really could care less that a team tried to give you 150 million dollars, maybe it’s just how I was brought up.
Chris Carpenter? Is he available? Can’t be cheap right, their trying to win now and him and Wainwright still have some time together.
Can you get a Nolasco or Carpenter type without parting with one of Brackman, Betances and Banuelos? I’m sure every team’s scouts know their names and no way a team like the Marlins or Cards will just admit they can’t contend in years they are “going for it” the Marlins signed players in fact.
If Brandon Webb didn’t want 10 mill he’d be a good choice.
That’s just speculation on my part with Carpenter. He hasn’t officially been made available, and even with a big extension for Pujols the Cards could simply have the new money kick in after next year and compete this year with Carpenter. It would have to be worthwhile for them to do now, so he’d probably be expensive. Nolasco is available, and would likely cost far less.
If Nolasco didn’t cost a major piece (Montero or one of the B’s) then I would consider that a real option I mea you could assume maybe Romine is in that deal somewhere and maybe Noesi but would it hurt us this year to give up Nova?
Even with Nolasco we have Sabathia, Nolasco, Hughes, Burnett and maybe Pettitte but more than likely he will go down at some point and we will need Nova but since he is technically “the most MLB ready” of our group I imagine he goes in any deal made or would I be foolish in this assumption?
I was thinking maybe sign a guy with injury risks.
I can’t imagine Nolasco being that expensive. He’s the type of pitcher he should go for a package of B-level prospects.
BTW-and I don’t mean ‘Killer’ B-level :wink:.
Just looking at FIP and WAR he hasn’t been bad over the last 3 years and if he comes cheap cheap i’d go for it, I’d expect him to be no more than a 3 though so Hughes has to start game 2 which is something I’d rather avoid.
2008- 212 IP, 3.77 FIP, 3.9 WAR
2009- 185 IP, 3.35 FIP, 4.3 WAR
2010- 157 IP, 3.86 FIP, 2.5 WAR
We have got to come up with a new name for these guys because I’m from Houston and when I hear “killer Bs” I think Biggio, Bagwell and Berkman haha.
I disagreed with Mike Silva on his show the other night (as did Mo on Twitter) but it turns out his strategy would have been the Yanks best chance. He suggested blowing Lee out of the water with a huge deal on par with CC’s. It’s tough to do with a pitcher who’s 3 years older than CC was, but that would have been the Yanks best shot. Still might not have worked, but being bold and sweeping Lee off his feet could have been the right move here.
Just my take on the situation is they played it right it’s not worth paying even the 6 years let alone 7 160 and at the end of the day I think we would have regretted it and just as we’re saying they don’t have the World Series won we wouldn’t have been guaranteed either, you were both right to disagree in the first place no need to second guess good strategy just because it failed once.
Looking at those offers that Crasnick reported, the Yanks really weren’t as aggressive as we thought. The Rangers offered more money per year, The Yanks were 10 mil higher in total dollars, but that’s just a smidge above the difference in state taxes. The early reports of the Yanks being more muted in their desire for Lee than they were in their desire for CC proved out in their offers. It’s a fair take, he is older, smaller in stature and therefore and more likely to break down, but the Yanks clearly weren’t as aggressive.
It’s kind of cool the Yankees weren’t the highest bidder for once I know the media is going to try and soin this into “Yankees lose” but in reality they didn’t bid against themselves so at the end of the day they win by setting a new standard. No longer are the Yanks the team that throws 3x more money at a player we went wth the approach of here is a better offer than most can give take it or don’t approach and they may be better of down the road, I know Ivan Nova is happy.
I heard Cashman say yesterday that the Yankes had contingency plans for if Lee said no, I wonder if he was talking about good ones or bad ones?
Heyman said they will be loading up the pen and I love that idea! Wood and Fuentes!
I know some of our readers will be ready to do this right around now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kubfuLjfe0
Let’s say worse case scenario comes true and the World Series is Phillies Vs. Red Sox do you A. Cheer for the Sox B. Do you cheer for the Phillies or C. Do you stay as far away from the TV as possible? Haha
C) find a nice, tall bridge.
How has Nolasco’s ERA not been lower? Looking at his peripherals he’s great.
2008 -3.52 ERA, 3.77 FIP, 3.75 xFIP, 1.10 WHIP, 7.9 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 4.43 K/BB, 3.9 WAR
2009 -5.06 ERA, 3.35 FIP, 3.28 xFIP, 1.25 WHIP, 9.5 K/9, 2.1 BB/9, 4.43 K/BB, 4.3 WAR
2010- 4.51 ERA, 3.86 FIP, 3.55 xFIP, 1.28 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 1.9 BB/9, 4.45 K/BB, 2.5 WAR
Besides ERA all these numbers are great and you can almost bet on a 4.4 K/BB ratio.
Nolasco turned 28 yesterday (Dec 13) and has two more years left of team control so in theory he’d be more than a 1 year stop-gap and could fit into the rotation for a couple years possibly if he pitches closer to his FIP.
Cashman won’t panic, which would be the worst possible reaction. He’ll explore various options and probably wait to see who becomes available during the season. The Yankees still have enough pitching to remain in contention, and they should have payroll space to take on a big (shorter term) contract as necessary.
I was always of mixed feelings about signing Lee for more than four or five years. The long-term implications were troubling — the Yankees would have another albatross contract weighing them down. Even with their revenue stream, the payroll cannot be unlimited, and aging, unproductive players can eat up roster space That is already a near certainty with ARod at the back end of his contract, and likely as well with C.C., Burnett, Tex, and Jeter.
How is a 35 year old Sabathia an albatross? old CC an albatross?
Won’t let me edit for some reason?
I agree with your overall post and the other names I just don’t see CC being useless by age 35, I mean we just tried to lock up Lee until 39 hoping he pitched well to 35.
Lee gets a 12.5 million dollar buyout after the 5th season and he has a vesting option for 27.5 million dollars….!
Are you serious? They are really risking paying him 27.5 million for the 6th year? Max money he can make is 135 million over 6 years which basically matches the Yankees offer exactly.
Wow, what a surprise. If I were Cashman, I would accept that the 2011 Yankeess won’t be a dominant team, though I hope still a play-off team. I would wait for the Killer B’s to develop, and hope that Yu Darvish posts next year. In the meantime, I would trade for an adequate 5th starter, lean on Pettitte to come back, and look for mid-season rotation help.
I worry about Yu and I’d probably pass, we’ve been burned on the Japanese pitchers before and truthfully the game is so different over there with different size balls and bats I just don’t trust it.
I agree with Mr Swift-let’s not trade any of our best prospects for a vet. We may even miss the play-offs next year, but we might even if we trade enough of them away to get a big name player.
The possibility is slim, but we may even get one of the young arms into the rotation some time in 2011. In any case, there’s nobody out there worth giving up one of the B’s let alone Jesus.
Would you let Brackman compete for a starting job in spring training Pep?
I wouldn’t let Betances or Banuelos see anything more than triple A this year but Brackman has some seasoning is already on the 40 and has been around a while, he might not win it but you could get some real motivation in the kid when and if he goes to Scranton because he would know he would be one of the first starters called up.
The Wild Card is our friend. Boston got better, but Tampa Bay is much worse, Texas is worse, and the AL Central is holding steady. No clear moves to improve in Toronto or Anaheim. The Yankees have a team that can make the playoffs if Pettite returns. They’ve already won 1 WS with 3 pitchers pitching great ball. They just need to qualify and roll the dice.
I wouldn’t say they are much worse they are worse for sure and especially in the pen but Desmond Jennings takes over for Crawford and Matt Joyce and Zobrist become everyday players (Zobrist was anyway but at multiple positions) but they still have a dominant rotation.
Price, Garza, Shields, Niemann, Davis and Hellickson
I think they will be a competitive team I definitely think we can beat them but it won’t be just us and the Red Sox in the division this year Tampa is still good but not great anymore and the Jays are going to keep improving.
Apparently the Marlins are “unlikely” to trade Nolasco even if they can’t come to an agreement on a contract extension according to Joe F. Some reporter in Florida.
[...] as the Yankee U points out, it could be worse: think of how the Mets fans [...]