Yesterday, the Yankees lost out on two bullpen options: Kerry Wood–who signed a “sweetheart” deal with the Cubs–and Bobby Jenks, who signed with the Red Sox for two years. Apparently, the former turned down a more lucrative deal from the White Sox, so it seems like his heart was set on going back to the Cubs. As for the latter, going to the Sox is definitely better for him. It’s a lot more likely that he could take over for Jonathan Papelbon than for Mariano Rivera. I can’t blame Jenks for going to Boston.
This leaves one big relief pitching free agent left: Rafael Soriano. We heard yesterday that the Yankees were in then not in on the former Rays reliever. In terms of talent and results, Soriano is definitely the best choice. Of course, he’ll come at a hefty price. He’s a closer and will want closer money. Obviously, the chances of him closing for the Yankees are very tiny.
Aside from money, there’s the draft pick compensation. Soriano is a type-A free agent, so signing him means forfeiting a draft pick in 2011. This draft is, apparently, very deep, and Brian Cashman has gone on record before saying that the Yankees do not want to give up draft picks for the sake of signing a reliever. This is a policy I agree with it. I could get behind signing Soriano if he (somehow) takes a cheap deal, but I wouldn’t even think of holding my breath on that one.
Internally, I think the Yankees are set for the “8th inning” role. Joba Chamberlain and David Robertson (with the occasional Boone Logan appearance thrown in for good measure) should be able to handle the ever important (yes, this is dripping with sarcasm) set up role. All three are cheap and the latter two have the potential to be closers one day.
My preference is for the Yankees to roll with Joba and D-Rob, since they’re much cheaper than any external option and the step down would not be all that big from a big name reliever.
What do you guys think? Should the Yankees get back onto the Soriano Train or should they roll with what they’ve got in the ‘pen already?
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14 Responses to Discussion: Internal or External?
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TIQ IQ
I think I agree with you, which is why I get and don’t really dislike acquiring Feliciano. I’ve seen people questioning why they’re giving Feliciano a multi-year contract instead of someone like Jenks (which is a bit of an unfair point because it assumes Jenks, for example, could have been had for the same contract he signed with Boston, which is probably untrue for the reasons you covered), which I think misses the point that the Yanks probably feel pretty decent about their RH relief options both in the majors and regarding the guys who could step-up from the minors and fill those roles, while they probably don’t feel so great about their LH relief options. The ‘pen is an area in which the Yanks should fill the roles that need to be filled from outside the organization but in which they should shy-away (and have exhibited a preference for shying-away) from adding options from outside the organization just because those options may be out there. The organizational philosophy re the bullpen has worked really well the last few years and I think staying away from the veteran RH options on the market this year, unless they can get one of them on a really friendly contract that they just can’t pass-up, is probably the right move.
That being said… If they wanted to go get a veteran RH reliever and then move Joba into the rotation, I wouldn’t be mad.
(ducks)
No need to duck most of us would welcome Joba in the rotation over a Freddy Garcia or Branden Looper or Sergio Mitre with open arms! At least I would.
What’s Dick Tidrow up to these days?
I think you are wrong.
Cashman was one of the first to point out the risk in signing relievers to big contracts, and how minor league starters can be used in that role at a lower cost. He learned this lesson the hard way–with contracts to Steve Karsay, Paul Quantril, and others blowing up in his face while having success piecing together bullpens from players like Jose Veras, Brian Bruney, Ramirez, and then Joba nad Hughes.
The danger IMO is getting so in love with a conclusion that you don’t constantly test it for various new situations.
With Karsay, there was a history of arm troubles. With Quantril, heavy usage. Others were up and down. In this case, I think Soriano has shown great consistency over the past few years to warrant a contract. Balfour as well. Wood did not. Jenks maybe not…Feliciano–maybe not a 2 year deal (but smaller risk).
An intelligent man always evaluates things within context, and does not depend totally on a set of general rules.
Also, I never wanted Lee here, but instead wanted to firm up the bullpen with players like Soriano, Jenks, Balgour, Downs, and Hisanori Takahashi (some combo of 3 of them). I fear that DRob is too inconsistent, and Joba is a head case.
This was an important area to shore up, and I don’t think Cashman has done it.
I agree with Mondesi above…I was hoping ot see them get a Soriano so Joba would get one last chance in SP. I think that unless the Yankees absolutely believe he will throw out his shoulder again due to a violent delivery, they should give him one more chance with Rothschild to see if he can pick up from 2009 around the ASB.
“the ever important (yes, this is dripping with sarcasm) set up role”
Without Kerry Wood the Yankees don’t make the playoffs last year.
They absolutely do. They made the playoffs by 6 games, ignoring the fact that they put on the breaks down the stretch. Without Wood, the higher leverage inning could have gone to other solid relievers. You wouldnt have a scrub in the 8th. He was great, but lets not overstate his impact.
I think Soriano would be a huge upgrade. Maybe you could package Joba in a deal for a starting pitcher. I do think the Yankees should make a run at Felix. I just do not see what good he does the Mariners other than a gate attraction. They are not going to to be competitve in the next few years and by then he will be a FA. I would think they would want to optimize his value. I would also think were he available the Yankees would make a strong offer.
Or Johan Santana, less of a package if healthy in the Lee category and his contract is not as cumbersome.
That’s exactly why they won’t trade him…. he is locked up for 4 more years and doesn’t start making 20 a year until the last year I believe and when you suck no one comes to your games and you lose money but when one player can put fans in the seats once evry five days you can’t let him go, not yet anyway he’ll be their at least 2 more seasons.
Johan Santana was once in the Lee conversation and in fact had a much longer prime but that was a few years ago, he doesn’t have god velocity anymore, he is highly overpaid and he has ended both of the last 2 seasons with surgery of some kind.
I’m afraid he probably isn’t that good for the AL anymore and it would be a huge risk and I’m sure the Mets wouldn’t give him away for salary relief.
The only thing I disagree with is that Robertson and Chamberlain can become closers one day… I think this is a very optimisitic view of these 2 and I think it ignores some very clear flaws in the 2 that most successful closers don’t.
I think Robertson is a great middle relief pitcher and on occasion can step up and setup a game but he isn’t the kind of dominant pitcher who comes in and you know his innings is pretty much over, he walks way too many batters in a relief role and I don’t think it’s something that going to change because it’s apart of him and walks is always a disaster in the pen and spells troublel.
Robertson while his velocity looked to go up a tick last year he is still relying on sneaky fast instead of truly blow you away and while it may not ever happen I just keep waiting for the day it no longer has that life and he becomes like everyone else tops out at 92-93 but sits 91…
Joba had great peripherals last year and everything pointed to an unlucky season but watching his games you could tell it was more than that he was getting pounded in games late with 5 and 6 run leads, the last pitcher who came in with a 6 run lead and made Mo eventually close out that inning I remember was Jose Veras against the Indians, just because you have a fastball doesn’t mean you have the mental makeup of a closer and I don’t see thtat in the way Joba holds himself on the mound, I don’t see it in his pitch selection and I don’t se it in his ability to lock down pressure situation it’s just like at times games can get away from him and he has no way to get it back under control.
He really didn’t do well in any type of pressure role last year but as he was moved further down the list of responsibility and as his innings were less and less pressure packed he did better but any moves to put him in late reverted him back to his earlier form.
I say lets get Soriano, you say Joba and J-rob are ok now, but think back to last year when Joba lost his way and Robertson lost his control. The Sox continue to fortify all areas of their team including the pen while we stand pat. Unless Cashman is sitting on another gem of a deal we all know nothing about, were getting beat at our own game by Sox this year. If the goal is to win a championship every year, how can we stand pat with a team that didnt even win its own league?
The goal should be to win a championship every year but for me personally I would rather go through another 2008 and re-tool in a manner that sets us up for the future than try and get get better at any cost and maybe just push off a 2008 like season for a year or so and maybe even extend it another year instead of just the one year re-tool.
Completely agree with Soriano though.
Maybe Cashman is trying to work a Edwin Jackson deal? As long as we’re keeping our good young kids and taking mostly money I’m more than fine with Jackson because he’s the type of guy who you could possibly extend next season like a Russell Martin.
I think you underrate a solid setup man on this team… True sometimes the 8th inning in and of itself is overrated but having 1 solid and reliable pitcher to throw out night after night before Mariano allows the entire bullpen to pitch in a place they are more comfortable (I have already gone over Joba and Robertson’s struggles in tight situations late in games), but more importantly than that we have a 41 year old closer who isn’t getting any younger and once every year has some sort of strain or pull in his body and has to pitch through pain if we have a solid setup man like a Brian Fuentes (Or Soriano) someone who can save games on a legit basis then we limit the amount of work Mo HAS to do and can allow him to stay fresher for the playoffs.
Added to that is the fact that someone who can save games and lock down a setup role means less 2 inning saves for Mariano in the playoffs and less 4+ out saves in the regular season which now more than ever seem to take some juice out him.
So while I agree the 8th inning is overrated I have to disagree with the blatant disregard that most fans treat a setup man with just because therm is given to anyone who pitches in the 8th inning, a setup man is not a pitcher who pitches in the 8th inning a setup man is a pitcher who you are counting on to take innings off of the shoulder of your closer and allow the closer to be the most effective he can be doing the job he is paid to do by making sure he gets more Save Opps (by not blowing leads) and makes those opps easier by making them 1 inning saves with clean bases to start.