Over the last few days, the Yankees have lobbed a number of verbal grenades in the direction of Derek Jeter. One surprising thing about the entire saga has been the amount of support the club has gotten in this battle with the Yankee captain. I expected many more indignant fans to rip the Yankees and defend Jeter than I have seen. This has caused me to start thinking about Jeter’s legacy with the fans, and wondering whether he is truly loved by Yankees fans. This morning, I posed the following query on Twitter:
“True or false: Yankees fans respect greatly and are awed by Jeter, but do not LOVE him like they did Mantle and Mattingly.”
I got plenty of votes for both sides, but the majority definitely landed on the side of “false.” That said, I think the initial premise, that he is loved less than players like Mantle and Mattingly, holds true. One interesting comparison brought up by @jhalpin37 in the ensuing Twitter conversation was that of Jeter to Joe DiMaggio. As our own @williamnyy23 stated,
“Similar personalities…very dignified, but incredibly private. Jeter stands at arm’s length, so easier to admire than embrace.”
I think William is right on the money with that summary. DiMaggio and Jeter both came off as being the ideal athlete, acting with class and grace on and off the field. In their personal lives, both dated starlets and seemed to lead blessed lives, but did everything they could to keep that area of their lives away from prying eyes. In a way, they seemed to be almost perfect, an idealized version of what we expect from superstar athletes. Because we know only the glossy public version of Jeter, we revere him, admire him, and envy him, but I’m not sure that we can relate to him enough to love him unconditionally.
By contrast, both Mattingly and Mantle were flawed heroes. Mantle’s affable personality made him a media and fan darling, and his injuries and the sense of “what could have been” made him someone that the fan base empathized with. Mattingly had similar injury issues, and the “what could have been” factor was strong regarding him as well. Additionally, his status as the homegrown star on the first “failing” Yankees team made him the lone player that fans could latch onto during that era. These players were not perfect, but the perception was that they fought through their weaknesses and did the best they could with what they were given. Their imperfections made them relatable, something that I think is required before fans unconditionally love an athlete.
If you asked fans from their respective eras to name their favorite Yankee players, I believe Mantle and Mattingly would get more votes from fans that grew up while they were playing than Jeter would receive from the current fanbase. While there may be reasons external to the players that explains the disparity (for example, there were few alternatives to Mattingly during the 80′s), I think the distance and privacy that Jeter maintains regarding his personal life and personality leads people to revere him and be awed by him without unconditionally loving him.
What do you think? Is Jeter beloved on the same level that Mantle and Mattingly were? Or does he fit better into the DiMaggio category?
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35 Responses to Derek Jeter: Where Is The Love?
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TIQ IQ
Nonsense.
We love him plenty. But not to the tune of throwing money at him that could either be used to help the team now, or prevent problems down the road. By just about any account, Jeter already got a MOST generous contract back in 2001. To say that the team should intentionally hurt themselves financially and overpay him out of some kind of debt owed, or sense of loyalty to Jeter is preposterous.
In fact, you wouldn’t have to go very far to make the very OPPOSITE argument. That Jeter has already been paid possibly more than he earned on the field, and that perhaps it is incumbent upon Jeter to give the Yankees a hometown discount so they could spend that money to improve the team AROUND Derek, thus improving their chances to send Derek off in style as a champion.
I’m not advocating for that position, but it is a legitimate argument nonetheless. And so maybe meeting somewhere in the middle is the “right” thing to do. And by that yardstick, I’d say the Yankees have already done their part – and more.
Oh, I didnt mean to equate one with the other, that loving him necessarily means giving him the contract he wants. It just got me thinking about Jeter and how the fans see him.
That’s not really an accurate statement. Fangraph’s, which absolutely hammers Jeter on defense, only has him being paid $25mn more than his value since 2002. Of course, that ignores the first 4-5 years of his career when he was likely well underpaid, so on the whole, I would guess Jeter has actually provided more value than his compensation over the course of his career.
Your not taking into account all the endorsement deals Jeter has gotten that would only come with being a huge star in New York, yeah other athletes get commercial but the level Jeter has obtained is another level and it only was possible playing with the Yankees.
He has made more on commercials and endorsements alone than he will on his next contract… I mean come one, the guys got an edge! Haha
I think this is a useful and insightful analysis. I do disagree with the notion that the younger Jeter fan base is less adoring of him than the younger fan base was of Mantle or Mattingly in their eras. I lived through those and think that while your analogy to DiMaggio is spot on, the fact is the society has changed in the past 50 years and we see athletes in different ways today. Some of that is good, some of that is bad. But my connection to the younger fanbase (particularly through NYY fans tweets on #nyy #yankees show enormous love for Jeter.
I think that Jeter’s conundrum is different: The “perfect” team player and captain–the role model of role models for players, fans, kids and such, is probably expected to take it for the team, or, in other words, accept with equanimity and grace that he is not what he was and will be somewhat diminished as each year goes by. But now Jeter is showing that he is 1) a rational economic being who is pursuing his own best interests in what will likely be the last contract of his baseball playing career, and 2) a guy with an ego who reasonably sees himself as (credit Jane Heller) part of a group that includes Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle, not Furcal, Rollins, etc. So now, when a guy who has seemed egoless now shows an ego, he looks like shit.
The Yankees have wasted tens of millions of dollars on free agents who were busts. What’s the difference between $15M a year and $20M a year? Five million dollars? In a $200M plus payroll, that $5M is peanuts. I think they should pay him that, try for three and give four to get it done. He’s worth it in the intangibles. He’s earned it so completely, especially when you look at A-Rod’s contract and the Yankees’ foibles there. Don’t screw Jeter because you were stupid in your approach to Rodriguez.
And, finally, this last note–what does A-Rod have to do with it anyway? A lot more than is seen in terms of Jeter’s emotional equation.
Frankly, I think the whole idea of having to compare Jeter’s and A-Rod’s contracts just makes Derek look that much worse.
Alex Rodriguez is truly a once in a lifetime kind of talent. If you want to try and quantify Jeter’s “intangibles” and put a dollar figure on that, be my guest. It still doesn’t add up to Alex Rodriguez. If Jeter honestly thinks this is somehow about Alex Rodriguez, he needs to let it go.
I think you’re right about this, actually. I think it is in the Yankee’s and Jeter’s best interests to quickly settle this thing. I mean split the difference. Everyone loses as this shit goes on and (it’s not my money) it can’t be worth the difference on either side to prolong this. It’s bad business for both and it’s bad brand management for both.
“Don’t screw Jeter because you were stupid in your approach to Rodriguez.”
You make other good points, but I think this one is a little off base. I don’t think offering $15M for any job can be reasonably construed as screwing Jeter, much less for being a ball player. Especially when the $15M per year is most likely well above his market value. The point could be turned around as follows: “Don’t reward Jeter because you were stupid in your approach to Rodriguez.” If Jeter allows himself to be insulted by the offer, or by whatever final offer the Yankees make, then fine. I’m not sure if anyone in the world will pity him for it. A person who is guaranteed $45M is never screwed.
This is an excellent point. Part of the Jeter aura is the idea that all he wants to do is win. Now that the other obvious notion, that he wants to earn money, is “revealed,” it makes him look bad (not that it should. He’s allowed to be a “rational economic being).
I dont agree that he’s earned the extra 5 million or more years. He was compensated greatly for his past actions, to the tune of 205 million over his career. 3/45 represents a premium over his baseball value.
Two points: Jeter has always “held out” for as much money has he could get and he hasn’t yet done anything to indicate he is “showing an ego”. So many people seem to be putting words in Jeter’s mouth. Can we at least wait until he actually says some of things being attributed to him before criticizing him?
He’s rejected a 3 year, 45 million dollar offer, which suggest that he values himself higher than most baseball people and observers do. I’d think that displays ego.
Also, you are acting like this is a bad thing. We always knew he had an ego, he’s a human being. I think that it just punctures the “totally selfless” bubble for those who believed it in the first place.
And word is that the Yankees are willing to increase that offer, so his ego must be right? This is after all a negotiation. I don’t think Jeter is obliged to take the first offer.
Everyone has an “ego”, but the implication is that somehow Jeter being unreasonable when he really hasn’t done anything definitive. I am not suggesting Jeter deserves sainthood…just respect as well as the rability to negotiate at the table, not in the press.
That would be fine if Jeter hadn’t unleashed his agent to call the Yankee offer “baffling”.
He stopped appearing reasonable about 5 minutes after that hit the headlines.
That’s a good point everyone who is apologizing for Jeter seems to be under the impression that his agent is saying these things and Jeter has nothing to do with it and no way to stop him…. News flash, agents work for players, I imagine Jeter has at least known if not directly had his agent say everything he has said. Seems like a smart way to get your views to the public without you getting any direct blame because “Derke hasn’t actually said anything”.
Well, just because they are willing to increase the offer doesn’t mean he’s right. It means the team is willing to pay him more than his market value, for whatever reason. It certainly would not be the first time.
And I never said he was being unreasonable. As you said, he has the right to try and negotiate and get as much as possible.
I still believe they are willing to pay him closer to the money he wants just only for 3 years and if that is the eventual compromise then both sides win, Yankees get the years they want and Jete gets the money.
The only way this gets solved is for both to walk away a little made, that is how negotiation works.
good article and an apt comparison between Jeter and JoeD. I think if you asked Yankee fans of the current generation who their favorite is you would get a very healthy % for Mariano. He might be even with Jeter. Back in those days, Mantle and Joe were more the solo stars of the team ( aside from Yogi) but I wonder if a poll were taken back then how many would have picked Yogi over either one of those guys
As a fan that pretty much grew up in the “Jeter era”, I just wanted to say my favorite player was Paul O’neill. Now my favorite player is swisher. Just wanted to throw that out there based on who I “loved” during Jeter’s time in pinstripes.
I’d add Munson to the list of Yankees who were more loved by the fanbase than Jeter.
I think its a shame that Jeter had such a down year because that makes it seem like he’s being punished for one bad year when its much more about 37 year old shortstops just not being a great financial investment. He’d still be the highest paid shortstop with this contract so its frustrating to read all the spin on how insulting the offer and Yankee approach is.
Clearly, him being a “Yankee Great” is the only card Jeter/Close have to play so its not that surprising that they are playing it as strong as they are. I doubt Jeter is as insulted as the press are making him seem to be. He probably just knows this offer isn’t going away and that there is room to go upward. I’d expect that the Yankees will give him a fourth year and a little higher annual salary(maybe $70 over 4). If I’m wrong though and he actually leaves, I have no problem with it. It would be weird seeing him in another uniform but its hard for me to view a first offer of $45 over 3 as disrespecting him. In contrast, I would have been pretty devastated if Mattingly or Munson had left.
I am not sure if you are accurately interpreting the responce you recieved from your Twitter question. You got a double negative, which is an affirmative. You asked: “True or false: Yankees fans respect greatly and are awed by Jeter, but do not LOVE him like they did Mantle and Mattingly.”
If the answer was False that they do not love him like they did Mantle and Mattingly, so they do love him like Mattingly and Mantle.
Its hard for me to personally way in because I am too young to know how Dimaggio and Mantle were loved. As for Mattingly, in the 80′s Ricky was my favorite player. In the 90′s/00s Mo has been my favorite. So, in my book they are even,
I’m 33, so I’m not sure which fanbase that puts me in your poll, but I can say that personally:
1) There is no player that I rooted for more than Donnie Baseball. The ending to the ’95 season was heartbreaking, as well as the ’94 strike. There is nothing that Jeter can do in my mind to ever place him with Mattingly.
2) Not only that, but of his cohorts, I think I had more of an affinity to Bernie than Jeter. Heck, sometimes I miss Scott Kamieniecki and was upset when he went to the O’s.
3) Jeter comes off as very egotistically, for many many years he’s been ripped defensively, and it’s not clear he understands his own faults. We finally heard that before the ’09 season he worked on improving his lateral range of motion. When A-Rod came over, no way was Jeter going to move to third (which is good, b/c A-Rod probably plays 3B better than Jeter would have), last year it took a very long time before Jeter went to K. Long. In general, Jeter comes across as thinking he has no flaws.
If Jeter jjust stood up and said “Look, I know I’m not the player I was, and it’s possible my defense was never that good. I plan to work with to work on that. But I still think I mean more to NY than AJ. I understand why the team might be shy on years, but how about a 3-year deal with a team option for *two* more? aren’t I worth that? ” I think that would go a long way to improving his image.
But that would require him to swallow his ego.
Terrific piece, Mo. Derek definitely elicits a cold response from me. He’s never let us in, and frankly I suspect there isn’t much to see. He reminds me a lot of Gehrig, and after reading a bio of him I came away with the impression he was a great player and utterly boring human being.
I liked Jeter a lot more in the late 90s than I’ve done since then. I was going to list a lot of reasons why, but suffice it to say there are reasons why some fans have become less and less enamored with “Captain Clutch”.
Me & a few others who were around back then have stated how much more Mantle was revered in the late 60s than Derek is now. It’s not even close. From 56 to 64, a lot of people thought Mantle was the best player in the game, and almost all NYY fans were sure of it. I don’t think there’s ever been a large percentage of fans that thought Jeter was the best player in the games, NYY fans or not.
1) Mantle and Mattingly never scoffed at a 15 mil per contract. Do you remember Dave Winfield’s “insanely large” contract? You can’t compare these things, he’s being offered more than he is worth and he is making it seem as though he’s been insulted, or his agent is at least.
2) What kind of argument is it to say, well you wasted all this money on Brown and Giambi and Pavano and Arod why are you gonna hold out on me? It’s like admitting it’s a mistake to give him a lot of money because those were ALL mistakes at least in hindsight with Pavano. Cashman would never have given Arod that deal and was ready to let him walk, so how is that any rationalization. If Jeter is the person he makes himself out to be he should understand that.
3) Jeter is the Captain and does always express his desire to win is the most important thing and personal accomplishments are something he will look back on when he’s an old fart. So if it’s all about, well you’re paying Arod this much, then clearly this persona is false and just something he says because again, we all know it was Hank that gave that deal and you have barely heard a peep from him since he did that.
4) The Yankees bring as much to who Derek Jeter has become as he himself has. The only other place all his “intangibles” matter are in Boston, the only town that is actually crazier about baseball, or at least used to be, than NYC. He’d just be a great player somewhere else, here he’s a superstar, revered and respected more than men with significant more offensive production.
5) My last point is it’s absurd to say this is his last contract that he will receive for baseball. We all know the Yankees take VERY good care of their former greats. Whether he can work as an announcer or as a consultant or whatever he wishes he will be given a role in the organization and a hefty salary. So don’t tell me this is the end of the line.
All this said I love Jeter, Mattingly more but I grew up with Donny Baseball, and pray this gets resolved in a way that doesn’t screw this team over. We’re already stuck with a 42 year old Arod
Random observation: throughout this year there were quite a few stories about A-Rod looking out to K-long, or whoever to try to get better. I never hear that about Jeter. At this point, I honestly believe A-Rod cares more about baseball, than Jeter does – perhaps that A-Rod even has a better baseball mind.
I wouldn’t say that at all…
They g about the game very differently, Alex is the type of guy who makes adjustments in his swing game to game at to at bat sometimes while Jeter has a sound strategy of inside out and tries to do the same thing the box almost every time.
Alex is very baseball smart and there is no doubt about that, he has a great respect for the history of the game and he knows his place in it’s history, he stays very stat detailed no just on himself but all players and tends to approach the game with a lot of emotion which has helped and hurt him.
Jeter on the other hand is also very smart about the game but he tends to approach the game more robotic, doing things technically right and reserving emotion not to make mistakes but it doesn’t mean he loves the game less. Jeter is a guy who shows his baseball intelligence gracefully either with slight positionings in the outfield, drop a bunt down third base line while in a slump and knowing just how much room he has before he has to dive into the stands.
To say he doesn’t care about the game or doesn’t have mind to become a manager one day is starting to go over board IMO.
I never said those things though. I agree they are overboard, but I stand by what I DID say.
What you very clearly said was Jeter no longer cares about baseball (implying he only plays for money) and that Alex has a better baseball mind than Jeter (implying Jete isn’t as baseball savy as people say he is).
I responded to these points alone and nothing more…. once again your reaction is going overboard, to claim he has lost interest in the game is unfounded and frankly doesn’t make any sense. Jeter is always on the top step ready to greet and congraulate and player hitting a HR or friving in a run, I see Jeter and Rodriguez conversing all the time on the bench about the game and on a walk off win I’m not sure anyone gets over the fence more quickly than Derek.
Your trying to portray him as some disenchanted rich guy who has drifted from the sport and it’s routes, if anything Jeter is nothing more or less mentally than he always was he hasn’t changed at all.
You clearly missed my point in my originial comment, perhaps I should explain my first response further.
I compared Jeter in Alex to prove you wrong about Jeter 1. Not caring about baseball 2. Not asking for help from Kevin and 3. Not being as baseball smart as Alex… all of which are points you brought up.
Alex asks for help all the time because that’s what he does he makes a bunch of adjustments all the time and will try anything, Jeter doesn’t need a lot of mechanical adjustments because he doesn’t try to change his swing or get a new timing device it’s not because he doesn’t care about the game.
I also pointed out how Jeter and Alex emtionally carry themselves differently so you don’t see them show off their baseball smarts in the same way. Alex is much more likely to help a guy like Cano out in the cage with his swing but Jeter is the type of guy who knows how to break out of a slump with a bunt, they both has vast array of knowledge on the game they just display it in diferent ways.
I said I thought Alex came off as caring more. That doesn’t mean I said Jeter cared zero.
Alex > Jeter > 0. Just because you can make inferences from my post doesn’t mean you can state I was implying anything of the sort you think I was.
The point I was trying to make, was that, for me, in 2010, Alex was easier to root for than Jeter. That is all. You may well feel different, which is fine, as this is all subjective.
Please be more careful in how you interpret other’s comments.
thanks,
I think the biggest thing is after the last decade Yankee fans have no more patience for bad contracts regardless of who they’re for. They’re tired of overpaying, and they’re tired of contracts forcing them to watch old overpaid players who can not perform at a championship level.
This kind of hit the nail on the head…. we’ve already made so many mistakes over the years on contracts we need to start drawing the line somewhere but every time we try fans just pull the “we have no budget pay the man” or “we’ve been stupid before with bad contract we have to do it now for player X”.
Personally I hate the “we gave bad contracts to Pavano, Arod, etc.. we have to give one to Jeter for all he’s done” but why must stupid make way for more stupid? Aren’t you suppose to learn from the past not be crippled by it?
Why are you such a Jeter apologist?
No one is “turning on Jeter” because he wants to get paid, people are starting to get angry because at this point in his career he is asking to be put above the orginization, the facts of the matter are he doesn’t deserve a 5 year deal and he doesn’t deserve 20 million a year and he wants both.
Was the mantle of “New Yorks perfect son” kind of thrust upon Derek? Yes, but has he done anything but try and feed into it? Not really, he tries to present as wholesome a publim image as possible and tries to fit into the “saint Jeter” role. Unfairly or not he got put their and new it was financially smart to run with it, well now that he is going against that mode to get his “final payday” fans don’t like it but that is what you risk playing these games, once he gets paid he won’t care what we think he’ll just play the deal out.
Yes a lot of are being hard Derek but he is asking the orginization to “take care” of him first before what is best for the team and any player should get flack for that…. How many fans were on Revis Islands side this year in training camp? He was putting himself and personal achievements/contracts above a superbowl caliber team and the team goals.
As far as Derek Jeter goes, let’s look at it this way: Most GM’s and Baseball personnel are saying he’d probably get 2 yrs at 8-10 million a year somewhere else (I have my doubts). To say the Yankees aren’t accounting for what and who he is is absurd. The Yankees are paying him for what he has done, and because he is Derek Jeter. 10 million for his services as a shortstop and an additional 5 million for being Derek Jeter. The three years is also fair. I understand Derek wants to play forever but he needs to be able to bring it. He needs to perform. Albeit maybe not at the level were accustomed to, but he still needs to play well. Derek needs to be moved into the nine slot (but only after he has a month or two next season to prove he’s still got it or if he’s getting old). There’s nothing wrong with Jeter in the nine slot. The Yankees need to win. They have to win. When the Yankees stop winning the whole franchise collapses. You can’t spend the type of money the Yankees do and not win. If Jeter was thinking he’d take the 15 a year and try and get an extra year or two thrown in… oh and lets not forget a thankyou. That would be in order as well…
Good Morning and Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Derek Jeter, who?I have spent the past decade living in one of the poorest countries on earth.Admittedly, I know very little about baseball and Derek Jeter.No one knows who Derek Jeter is on the other side of the planet. Derek Jeter is not an immortal, an icon, a role model for humanity to revere, respect and love.He is not a role model that I want my children to aspire to. He is not a firefighter, a doctor, a research scientist, committed to curing diseases that plague humanity, he is not Mandela, Ghandi, Mother Teresa.You get the point. Those people were selfless and changed the world. They will never be forgotten because what the stand/stood for is timeles. Derek Jeter is part of the Yankees,who are part of the American League, which is part of baseball….which is a big business. Businesses survive if they earn a profit. That’s fine and I respect
I look at Jeter as small business owner, part of the bigger business, The Yankees. His goal is to maximize his profit, not the teams but his own.If players were selfless they would not accept compensation exceeding any player on their team. That is not the case, and that’s okay.Jeter has earned it seems $250 million dollers. An icon, an immortal, a great role model? He is a small business owner trrying to maximize his profit.Fine but do not describe him as one would a saint. Do not tell peoples that he deserves more because he is Derek Jeter. Who is Derek Jeter? See who will know the answer a generation from now. God bless him for looking to max is worth. His ” small bssiness “has a finite life span. Earn whatever you can, Derek.
Please don’t talk about your worth as an icon. I missed the past decade, but know you received Hundreds of millions. To ask more is fine, but to be baffled is insulting and exposes you for what you are a base ball player
in an era for extreme greed and far from selflessness.That’s okay it’s a business. I saw a side of you earlier this year when you acted out and was awarded a base, when a ball did not hit you. My son saw that and asked me, : dad was that the right thing to do.?” Wow , how do you answer that? Sure do whatever you can to win, is the motto, was Jeter’s reply when confronted. It’s not fine but it is. What it did for my son was to confuse him about what an icon and an immortal really is in the grand scheme of things. Jeter is mortal. Please stop giving children the impression that he is above the rest of the players. He is not. He wants to max his profit final. I have babbled here because of disgust, over a mortal, Jeter ,who trys to look like a role model, as an immortal, when in fact he is not. That’s okay…One final note. Please don’t insult the likes of Mantel,Ruth, Gherigh, Dimaggio, whose only claim to fame, was they were baseball players, great ones who in the world of baseball, not life, were truly icons, and immortals. Jeter has never been in their league, never will, and that’s okay. God bless the immortals like Mandela, Mother Teresa. and finite others who changed the world…the firefighters, and doctors……and the like…Jeter you are a baseball player, that;s okay. Make as much as you can but stop the icon and role model stuff…admit why you play ball, to enhance your net worth and make as much as you can…..while the rest of humanity struggles. This whole story is tragic and
not worth talking about anymore. Jeter take the 45 million and continue to endorse products…don’t be baffled.
Lord, it’s Thanksgiving. Make a statement and accept the offer ONLY if the Yankees match it donating it for
buliding a hospital for children with terminal illnesses…You will donate 10million as well. Name the hospital after yourself….Incredible PR, you will eran more by a factor of 10…through endorsements and you will have a true legacy to be proud of ,admired and loved by people everywhere. Do it and baffle the Yanks and you come out like an icon and true role model…………….Give Thanks today.