Will Lee's next pitch be in pinstripes?
The title says it all, here’s the story from Joel Sherman:
The Knicks didn’t get LeBron James, but the Yankees were on the brink of obtaining Cliff Lee late last night for a package that would include top prospect Jesus Montero, the Post has learned.
Yankees GM Brian Cashman and Seattle GM Jack Zduriencik have been in constant contact over the last week, but it was only last night that the Seattle GM told Yankee officials he wanted to move quickly, possibly before the All-Star break.
The Yanks were not assured of obtaining Lee since other clubs such as the Mets, Twins and Rangers were in talks. But the Yanks were definitely making the strongest move last night, coming from seeming disinterest into the clear front-runner and last night it seemed they were all but certain to obtain the 31-year-old lefty.
(snip)
In the offseason, the Yanks tried to make a deal with Philadelphia and offered Montero as the key piece. But the Phillies decided to take the Mariner offer instead.
However, Seattle’s contention plans fizzled and Lee was put up for auction by the frustrated Mariners. The Mets were perceived to be more interested in the ace than the Yankees. But the Yankees adore Lee as a pitcher and had been planning to make a big push for him as a free agent anyway.
So they decided to stay engage on this matter even as the perception in the sport grew that the Twins were the frontrunners with perhaps the Rangers close behind.
Yankee management looked at its rotation and had some pause. CC Sabathia was again an ace and Andy Pettitte is pitching as well now as ever. But A.J. Burnett and Javier Vazquez are not fully trustworthy, especially for the playoffs, and Phil Hughes has an innings limit of about 175, and might not be available to start.
Cashman might now be in position to either put Hughes in the bullpen to bolster that shaky area or trade a starter, possibly Vazquez, for a few prospects. It was possible that injured Double-A second baseman David Adams also was part of the deal to Seattle since he is a player the Mariners like a great deal.
(snip)
The Yanks like Montero a great deal, but they were willing to use him as bait for both Lee and Roy Halladay in the offseason. They are deep in catching prospects and could never be sure that Montero could actually make it as a catcher in the majors since that is the suspect area of the game. He is considered one of the elite hitting prospects in the minors, though he was hitting just .253 with six homers and 34 RBIs this season at Triple-A.
I’m still dubious. You can understand the team not trusting Vazquez in the playoffs after his slow start, and with Hughes due to reach his innings limits later this year he could be moved to bolster their sagging bullpen. Joba has failed to build the bridge to Mariano that Hughes created last season. The Yanks have obvious depth at the Catcher position, with Cervelli, Romine and the red hot Gary Sanchez in rookie ball. But giving up Montero is overpaying in the extreme, especially when there isn’t an obvious need, and even a team as rich as the Yanks has to be smarter than that. As I stated yesterday, the marginal difference between Javier Vazquez and Cliff Lee isn’t worth giving up a prospect like Montero. But Joel’s a good reporter with good sources, so I have to take this report seriously. That being said, I still think the Yanks will back out at the last minute, and are just doing this to drive up the price for a potential playoff opponent like the Rangers or Twins.
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27 Responses to Sherman-Yanks on the verge of acquiring Cliff Lee
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TIQ IQ
I’m doubtful, too. This just isn’t the way Cashman has operated. I won’t believe it until I see it; if it happens, though, I’ll be disappointed.
This is a move you’d make for a tiny handful of games in the playoffs, and while he would certainly increase their odds of winning it all this year, losing Montero will hurt the team down the road. It just strikes me as short sighted.
If they pull the trigger on Montero, it may also signal that they’re not all that happy with his progress as Catcher. If he doesn’t have a position (or one he could adequately hold down on a winning team with a veteran pitching staff like the Yanks) he loses a lot of value.
All of that being said, the Yanks are certainly a match and he would improve the 2010 team significantly. Maybe Brian thinks the future is too unknowable to factor in.
BTW-Any less than 40 comments for this thread and I’ll be very disappointed in our readers. Very!
Much as I love Cliff Lee, I would not make a deal that includes Montero. He is seen as an elite bat, even if he ends up as a DH long-term rather than behind the plate. (Caveat: I have seen little of Montero and can only rely on all of the reports I have read, so the Yankees might know more about his limitations than I do.) Lee’s incremental value in the play-offs is not sufficient to pay such a steep price. It would be the kind of deal that represents a return to the win-now-at-any-ridiculous-cost approach that marked the pre-Cashman era in the Yankee organization. The move would necessitate a string of others, such as dealing Vazquez, that would be disruptive on the team that already has the best record in baseball and an extremely solid and deep starting corps. Just say “No”, Brian.
One additional point: no deal ever “guarantees” a World Series championship. It is all a matter of increasing the probabilities of a successful outcome. If the Yankees make this deal and radio sports-talk hosts start mouthing off about how the Yankees have assured another world championship, it’s utter nonsense.
The Key that you all are forgetting is that Cliff Lee Dominates the Yankees!!! By acquiring him and locking him up for a long term deal the yanks take one of the Best pitchers in the game away from everyone.. Montero is a prospect, as many of you know 1/10 prospects actually amount to anything.. Wny not get the second best left hander in the game and have the two best to throw out there twice a series.. You people are thinking way to hard about this… Cliff Lee= several world series to come… Vazquez is awful throwing only 89 miles an hour with a flat slider.. He is going to continue to get hit hard at Yankee Stadium.. Lee is the Lebron to the Heat the Yanks need to solidify their run…
Jose Tabatia – wasn’t he an “elite” bat? He’ll be a star for years to come.
Kevin Maas?
Hensley “Bam Bam” Muelens?
Ruben Rivera – “He’s the goods, 5 tool player…”
The Yankees would not be acquiring Cliff Lee just for 2010.
The 2011 rotation is: Sabathia, Hughes, A.J., and ???? (Will Vasquez re-sign?), and ??? (Will Pettitte retire?). Lee will make them strong for years to come. He’s the best available arm – and he should be solid for years and years and years.
The Yankees could have had Randy Johnson in the early 1990′s but refused to give up Sterling Hitchcock if I remember the story correctly.
I always have two thoughts with deals like this:
1. ALWAYS trade potential for the “sure” thing (as much as any player is a sure thing…). Too many of these future starts just never are. I would not trade high prospects for the likes of Jeff Weaver, etc… but Cliff Lee is an elite pitcher.
2. More than #1, I trust the Yankee management. Their track record is solid, especially since Cashman took over. They’re World Champs, they have the best record in 2010 in MLB… if the Yankee brain trust thinks the deal makes sense, I trust them.
The hype around Montero reminds me of the hype around Joba. Now we can’t give that cat away.
You give up what might be for what is right now when you want to win WS’s year in year out. Let’s get off the “we need to keep our prospects” high horse. When you have a chance to have studs like Lee and CC as your 1-2 for the next 4-6 years you give up potential for proven talent. There was no guarantee we’d be able to get him in the offseason and we obviously could use some help down the stretch.
As for that WAR comparison between Javy and Lee, that’s just fallacious and another reason why you need to use your eyes vs stats on a paper that have no context what so ever. Javy was in the NL that entire time. Lee was in the AL for all but the last half of last year. Who do you want on the mound in a critical Game 5, 6 or 7 in the playoffs? You’re going to use a WAR stat to determine that?
I’m really torn on this one. I mean this guy is a Miguel Cabrera comparison with a Pujols ceiling. Granted he could be mediocre too. But…. we could sign Lee as a FA,I think he WANTS to be here. I’m sure CC has told him of the benefits of being a Yankee.
I hope Cashman has a plan here.
or steve balboni.. we know what we get from lee…how many next mantle’s were there.
cash will sign him for 4 to 5 years, he is a good fit going forward, pettitte will pitch next year, after his best year ever, barring injury.after that the yanks save 11mil in 2012.javy is gone next year and 11mil more. maybe brackman will be ready or another kid will the 5 guy. CC pitching on 3 days rest in the playoff ad WS can’t go on even he will break down . this year we will have 4 guys that are tested winners going in. i would not want javy to have the ball .after pettitte is gone, we have 2 great lefties. also it is a great move to keep him an AL playoff team…do you want to face him twice or throw him twice in the first round.. to be or not to be that is the question..i love montero , but you must give to get..it is about winning now,we are not rebuilding..we tweak as we go..how old is he 31? great age for lefties..this is about our future..cliff lee’s of the world are not available very often.. the rays are hot again two games back..we need help in the pen..girardi needs another arm he can trust.. as far as offense our 3 4 5 guys need to carry the load ..so far it has been cano..with a sprinkle of tex and alex..with hughes in the pen ,it becomes a 7 inning game. and in the playoffs javy goes in there.. boy it sounds to good.
look our roster is getting older and there is a tendency to win now, which may be the last value of the core four. BUT, this kid is 20 and has an elite bat. We’re not talking about an overhyped prospect. I’ve seen him play and I’ve met him. He is level headed and a hard worker. But, the delta between a Lee and Javier isnt enough to mortgage in my opinion.
i have been reading this blog for two years, and have yet to stumble across a dumber line than: “the marginal difference between vazquez and lee…” – if the difference between these two is marginal, clearly we are not watching the same sport, or define the word “marginal” differently…
lee is a huge upgrade over vazquez, across every statistical category and previous performences.
i second that
“9:35am: The Lee-Yankees deal is “just about done,” an executive involved in the negotiations tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter link).” -Courtesy of MLBTradeRumors.com
thats for the wonderful news..keep us posted
this sucks.
a sick part of me wants to lose the world series now- with lee on the mound- while montero goes on to win three MVP’s in seattle.
Disco, i love montero just as much as you…by getting him we block others from getting him..we don’t need him on texas.. lee loves to pitch in front of big crowds..big stage guy..i hope he wins some mvp’s ..then we sign him back when free agency hits his door..
Yeah, Lee is better. But over the course of two months it will be marginal. Lee might add an extra win or two the rest of the way. For a team like Minny that might be a big deal, but adding an extra win or two for us isn’t worth losing Montero because we’re already the favorites.
Hi Disco..do you really think a win or two? he eats innings, we can win a game 2 to 1..his club house appeal will be great..the playoffs… he will be doings this for years to come.he now leads the A.L. in era.. the guy is a rock.. hughes goes to the pen and we have peace of mind there now.. no need to trade for a pen guy.. hey in a few years if montero becomes what we all think he will be…sign him back..
This is the nonsense I can’t stand. An extra win or 2? That’s it? IN THE PLAYOFFS THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RAISING THE TROPHY AND GOING HOME TO FISH!!!!
My lord, don’t you people get it? We don’t make these moves for the regular season, it’s all about October/November. Sure his value is marginal over Javy in the regular season, and i don’t even accept that. In the playoffs in crunch time? His value is extremely higher than Javy. I think that’s just blatantly obvious.
This is also why I was deeply opposed to forcing out Johnny/Godzilla last offseason for Nick Johnson/Granderson. Sure, over the course of a long 162 reg season we haven’t dropped off much if at all, but who wants either of those two up at bat in the playoffs in a key situation with the series in the balance over Damon/Matsui?
“This is the nonsense I can’t stand. An extra win or 2? That’s it? IN THE PLAYOFFS THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RAISING THE TROPHY AND GOING HOME TO FISH!!!!
My lord, don’t you people get it? We don’t make these moves for the regular season, it’s all about October/November. Sure his value is marginal over Javy in the regular season, and i don’t even accept that. In the playoffs in crunch time? His value is extremely higher than Javy. I think that’s just blatantly obvious”
Well stated BxBomber. And it’s why “advanced metrics” like WAR, vastly underestimate the impact of Mariano Rivera on the Yankees ability to win WS.
A further point on this issue.. By trading for Lee, the Yankees keep him away from the Rays or Twins. A starting rotation headed by Lee, Price and Niemann/ Garza or Lee, Liriano, Baker would be extremely difficult to beat in October. Now, not so much.
well said, i second that also…it is so basic ,how could some not see that..
Because often they can’t step outside the “advanced metrics” and see what the real world implications are.
“10:03am: Ken Davidoff of Newsday hears that the talks have hit a ‘snag’ and notes that the Yankees remain hopeful that they can finish the deal (via Twitter). Davidoff and ESPN.com’s Buster Olney both note (via Twitter) that the Yankees will not get a negotiating window for a contract extension.
Olney hears that the Yankees told the Mariners that their current offer is their last and best one. The Yankees expect an answer soon, since Lee is scheduled to face them tonight (Twitter links).” -Courtesy MLBTradeRumors.com
“10:44: Catching prospect Jesus Montero and second base prospect David Adams will head to the Mariners, possibly with another prospect, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who broke the story.” -Courtesy MLBTradeRumors.com
I always thought Montero was vulnerable as trade bait, especially afthad indeed made a run at Halladay using Montero as bait. there’s alot to like , no LOVE in Lee’s ace talents . However, the pressure is on to sign Lee so i’m not exactly cool of the no-extension window.
Suddenly, Romine looks to be the org’s top prospect. Gotta raise your game kid!