Can Robertson emerge from the darkness to save the bullpen?
If there’s one area of concern on the 2010 Yankees it’s been the bullpen, despite yesterday’s fine effort. More specifically, the problem has been the bridge to Mariano Rivera, who at age 40 is remarkably having one of his best seasons. I’ll go through the issues one by one and then propose some changes, all internal and none of which involve a trade. I’m not big on giving up talent for relievers due to their volatile nature and the learning curve involved with how to use them. Might as well just go with internal options that you are more familiar with and see if they can do the job.
-Joba Chamberlain has been put on notice by Joe Girardi, but unless he starts dominating (ala Joba 07) it’s hard to imagine him being able to doing anything to regain the trust of fans and his manager. We all know his peripherals have been good, but he’s been far too combustible in his current role. You can’t bring Mo in for 6 out Saves on nights when Joba doesn’t have it, so it’s best to either bury him in the bullpen or send him to AAA. I prefer the latter. There has long been whispers about Joba needing a wake up call, riding the buses in Scranton would certainly be that.
-Damaso Marte was placed on DL with a shoulder strain on Saturday, and Boone Logan was called up. Does that injury sound familiar? Yep, he had what was described as a mild shoulder strain in his first year with the Yankees, then again last year when he spent m0st of the season on the DL. It’s anyone’s guess how serious it is this time, but all we can say for certain that it is a recurring issue for him. Yanks are saying 2-3 weeks, don’t hold your breath.
-David Robertson is being discussed taking over Joba’s role as the primary setup man. While his overall numbers don’t look great, he’s been reliable since his ERA peaked at an ugly 14.21 early in the season. Since May 5th, over his last 22 outings he’s had a 2.70 ERA and has SO 27 batters in 24.1 IP. Walks have been high, with 15 BB over that same time frame. But he’s always walked batters, it’s part of who he is. That doesn’t preclude him from being effective.
-Sergio Mitre is due to be activated from the DL, and is expected to join the team on Tuesday for the Angels series. I have to assume he takes Pettitte’s place and slots into his spot in the rotation with Andy on the shelf for 2-3 weeks minimum.
-Andy’s injury probably saved Chad Gaudin’s spot on the roster, who was one of the most likely candidates to be released when Mitre was activated. Chad has done little in his second go round with the Yanks, posting a 6.52 ERA this year. But looking at Gaudin’s game log he’s been better of late, giving up just 4 ER over his last 13.1 IP. Despite this, I think the Yanks will want to give Dustin Moseley more of a chance and Gaudin remains the one on thin ice. Moseley has only pitched 6.0 innings for the team this year and could be useful as a Ramiro Mendoza-type who can either get you a ground ball or give you a few innings.
Now that we’ve laid it all out, I would do the following to remake the current bullpen:
-Release Chad Gaudin when Pettitte returns
-Release Chan Ho Park, call up Jon Albaladejo to take his place.
-Demote Joba to AAA call up Ivan Nova
The beauty of this is that the guys you’re calling up can’t be much worse than Park, Gaudin, or (in all honesty) Joba have been this year. If any of them pitches to an ERA below 6.00, it’s an upgrade. Of these 3 items, I fully expect the first two to happen. Demoting Joba would take some guts, and the Yanks may be swayed by his peripherals enough to stick with him. Assuming Joba pitches well in Scranton, he would be recalled when their season ends in early September (if not sooner) and could still contribute to the MLB club this year.
The Yankee bullpen would then be as follows:
Mariano Rivera (Closer)
David Robertson (Set up)
Damaso Marte/Boone Logan (LOOGY)
Sergio Mitre
Jon Albaladejo
Ivan Nova
Dustin Moseley (long man)
What do you think? What moves would you like to see the Yanks make?
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20 Responses to Remaking the Yankee bullpen
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TIQ IQ
I know the part of this that seems most unnerving is sending Joba down, but it’s really not that big of a deal to me. Robertson was sent down multiple times, as was Hughes. It’s not that he has anything to learn down there, it’s just about regaining his confidence on the mound and taking him down a peg off it. After August 7th, Joba hits the 3 year service mark and would have to clear waivers. Time is running out to use this tool, I’d give it a shot. One more bad outing by Joba (and he was close to imploding yesterday) and he goes down.
I’ve been begging for Joba to be in triple A since spring when it was clear he wasn’t going to start and I would say that he does have something to learn in Scranton, not from a perspective of triple A batters challenging him but from the perspective of learning how to throw his secondary pitches and specifically the changeup. I have always been of the mind that if Joba doesn’t learn to throw a good change he will never be an elite starter or reliever, his fastball and slider speed are just to close together to rely on only those 2 pitches even out of relief but if he could add a solid changeup (even if he has to sacrifice the curve) it would keep batters from sitting on the 88-94 MPH window he throws in and make his fastball a better pitch on days when the velocity just isn’t there.
I’ve always thought Joba should use his curve more on nights when the slider isn’t sliding. His curve isn’t as good as D-Rob or Hughes, but it’s a serviceable pitch and can be effective simply because of the change of speed from his fastball. Joba falls in love with his slider, and some nights it just isn’t there.
With Pettitte down. I would like to see how Nova does in the fifth starter role. The other chocies — Mitre, Moseley, Gaudin — are, to say the least, underwhelming. Before the Yankees rush to make a deal, it would make sense to see whether the most viable, major-league-ready young option can do the job. Alas, the organization seems wedded the view that major league mediocrities who have never done much previously ought to be given the chnace not to do much again.
I exoect the Yankees now to get in on the action for a proven major league starter before the trade deadline. By the time Pettitte is ready again, Hughes will be nearing his innings cap. So any starter Cashman acquires will have a job to the end fo the season. We should certainly expect now to hear the Yankees linked to every starter on the market.
Buster Olney on M&M this morning suggested that the best 2 options for the Yankees was trading for either Brett Myers or Jake Westbrook because they are both starters who could be setup men… Do you see either one of them as a good setup man? I really don’t. Myers gets hit harder and for more power against lefties which won’t help in Yankee stadium and Westbrook has a 1.4 WHIP and a fastball sitting 90 avg MPH. I would much rather see Mitre or Nova claim the job before going after either one of these guys.
The only pitcher I want to trade for right now is the same guy I have wanted for 2 years and that’s Joakim Soria but I don’t know how reasonable the Royals would be when it comes to giving up one of their only draws to the park (but really how much can a closer on a team that doesn’t win help draw crowds).
I was reading yesterday of a suggested trade involving Joba and ZMac for Soria in a deal set up in the same fashion as the Lee deal only replacing Joba for Montero and Soria for Lee which would make some sense from the Royals point of view (receiving 2 starting prospects and a little more for a reliever) but when you consider just how good Soria has been and how young he still is and factor in how erratic Joba has been even in the pen it starts to make less sense from their POV.
Does Joba even have any trade value at this point? The fastball heat has been come and go all season and can seem to be anywhere from 92 to 98 from day to day and that is out of the pen alone however the more concerning part from the Royals end would be his lack of secondary pitches and lack of a changeup being thrown even once this year in the pen showing he has no belief in that pitch whatsoever.
Here’s the problem with Soria-
Joakim Soria rhp
3 years/$8.75M (2009-11), plus 2012-14 club options
* 3 years/$8.75M (2009-11), plus 2012-14 club options
o signed extension with Kansas City 5/17/08
o 09:$1M, 10:$3M, 11:$4M, 12:$6M club option, 13:$8M club option, 14:$8.75M club option ($0.75M buyout for each option)
o escalators based on IP (as starter) or games finished (as reliever)
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/kansas-city-royals_28.html
At those prices, you’d have to give a truckload of talent to offset how underpaid he is. If for some reason the Royals love Joba, that would be a good place to start. But you’d have to fill 2-3 needs minimum with MLB ready talent.
I would be for that KC trade. You know–a trade to KC might be good for Joba. You are almost a hometown boy in KC if you are from Nebraska.
But, I don’t really understand why KC would even put Soria’s name out there in trade talks.
I have always really like Robertson as a Yankee and he has always been a fairly stable guy who you know is going to walk guys but also get his fair share of Ks to even it out but I never saw him as a closer or lockdown setup man because of the walks and the shakiness in which he works. He’s a nail bitter plain and simple he’s a guy who can come in and get the 3 outs you need but he may also end up with the bases loaded before getting out of the inning and that bend but don’t break strategy doesn’t always work and when you do it with walks you really kill the mood of the team playing behind you. The point I’m making with this is if Robertson ends up as out everyday 8th inning guy this year I’m more than OK with it and I think he can do a good enough job to warrant him getting the first crack at it but I am not OK with going into next year with him as my penciled in setup man.
All of that is fair, I’m just thinking he’s the best option we have right now. Maybe Hughes is the primary setup man come playoff time.
I wish Ace was healthy, he would solve a lot of problems. It’s also unfortunate Melancon dropped this far off the radar. I thought in ST he would emerge as our best RP not named Mo. Now he isn’t even being looked at when the entire bullpen is hurt or sucks.
If there was a pitcher I’d trade for, it’s Soria. He can solve bullpen issues this year, but in 2011 he should be converted back to a starter ala Wainwright considering he has four pitches and we all know SP>RP
I agree with most of the solutions, but I can’t imagine very many of them taking place. I think it’s far more likely we continue to employ the Ponson type guys-which seems to be Cashman’s MO in situations like these. I especially doubt Joba goes to AAA.
Gaudin, Mosely, Park, et al are likely to be here for a while longer. I suspect we may be seeing a bit of hubris from Cash and Joe, since they had some success with guys like Farnsworth in the past.
Part of it may be hubris, but i think the main reason the Yankees can’t get some of these very useful relievers on the market is that their teams may be asking too much right now due to competition from other teams. Lets see how the last 3 days to the deadline goes. I think Cashman & Girardi would love to have one of Soria, Downs, Wurtze, Meeks, etc.—at the right price.
I think reasonable Yankees fan should reject the choices presented so far.
I want Joba in the majors, with Robertson. I’m not sure why you’d boot Park. I’d add Albaladejo to that. That would be my “bridge to Rivera” — those 4 guys, pitching the 6-7-8 innings.
The starters break down as CCS, AJB, Javy V — plus 2 of Hughes, Petttite, Gaudin, Mitre. I’d cut Gaudin loose as soon as possible, as I believe he’s proven that can start in the majors, but not necessarily for the Yankees.
Add one of the lefthanders and Mariano, and that’s 12 pitchers on the roster (assuming Andy P goes to DL and Gaudin goes away when he comes back).
If Girardi thinks he “needs” 2 lefties out there, and Marte does come back in 3 weeks, then they carry 13 pitchers. This wouldn’t be my first choice……
The rotation has Phil or Andy as #4 starter, Mitre as #5. Do the Yankees get lucky enough to have Phil pitch well until his innings limit, and have Andy come back (strong) at precisely that moment?
And: What becomes of Phil after the limit? Is he a 5th in-between guy in the bullpen, pitching the 7th or 8th? I don’t know the answer, do you?
The bullpen can rotate guys for the 8th inning — Jon A Chan Ho, Joba, and Robertson. So what if Joba pitches the 6th? As Girardi proved Sunday vs. Rays, sometimes the key inning comes earlier than the 9th — Robertson pitched to the key batters in that game, didn’t he?
Why send Joba out? Why not get rid of Moseley? What’s he proven? Joba has proven that he has fire in his belly. And his fastball is getting faster this year. Are you fans sure you want to give up on a young guy because he’s inconsistent early in his career?
Is anybody here familiar with the career of Don Larsen?
Why pick ONE guy to pitch the 8th? Why not see how the games go? I presume Mitre, with just 60 pitches last week, isn’t going to see the 5th of his first game. That means you need some strong arms to get thru the 5th-8th innings……doesn’t it?
You need to step off the ledge with Joba. While I can understand the sentiment behind working his issues out in AAA (as a starter), I don’t think what’s presented here is the right reason. I don’t think replacing him with Ivan Nova, who will struggle as a young pitcher as well, makes the big league team better. Perhaps I’m reading too much into what you are saying.
Can’t argue with the rest. It’s time to see whether the new and improved Alby is for real, or just smoke and mirrors.
Maybe you are reading more in than is there, or you’re still hanging on to a 07 Joba who we haven’t seen in years. I know for a fact that the Yankee brass is VERY concerned about Joba. Look at him from their perspective. They made him a full time starter last year and he wasn’t all that good (for whatever reason). Now they’ve made him a full time reliever and he’s not performing again. At some point, you give up the ghost. Fans can blame whoever they want for his failings, but as Girardi said “he has to perform.” This is the Yankees, they won’t stick with a pitcher who’s not getting the job done.
Are we assuming Aceves won’t be back this year?
It’s hard not to. Every time he gets going, he seems to have another setback.
Maybe a lot of young guys never have known how debilitating a bad back is, but believe me, it is, and many cases cannot be cured, and others take a long, long time to feel better. Doctors, and operations are only of limited help, regardless of how rosy some doctors paint the picture. (It can be overcome though, I did.)
When it was first reported that he had a bulging disc (!!) in his back, and reports stated that, well, “he should be back in 2 to 3 weeks”, my reaction was, “What–he’ll be lucky if he can throw a pitch by December, or even ever again.”
On a more optimistic note—-Has anyone else recognized that Aceves is 14-1 in his (short) Yankee career? I believe this is a first in all time Yankee history that someone has started his career that good.
( from memory–Whitey Ford came close, won his first 10 games, but I don’t think he was 14-1, or better.) Good company nontheless.
Big, big loss for the Yankees this year. Undereported how bad a loss.
Doubt Nova comes up to pitch out of the pen, also doubt that Moseley will have any sort of success with the NYY. He’s a 5th starter on a bad team, at best. I see Rumolo Sanchez coming up to take Park’s place, and doubt NYY will use Nova in the pen as he’s in line to take a starting spot – a role his stuff is probably more suited for. Even though I offered different opinions, I love the web site. Keep up the good work.