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I thought this was an issue that had gone away, but Joe West decided to dredge it up again last night when speaking to The Record:
“They’re the two clubs that don’t try to pick up the pace,” said West, the chief of the umpiring crew working the three-game series, according to the report. “They’re two of the best teams in baseball. Why are they playing the slowest?
“It’s pathetic and embarrassing. They take too long to play,” he said, according to the report.
The common response from Yankees fans is that these games simply have more pitches thrown and pitching changes, and that the longer game times are simply a natural extension of the game. Let’s take a closer look at the 2009 numbers (all numbers are rounded off).
Average Game Time
Yankees: 3:08
Red Sox: 3:04
Lg. Avg: 2:52
Total Pitches Per Game (includes for and against)
Yankees: 304.3
Red Sox: 306
Lg. Avg: 294.6
Pitches Per Minute (and, for your convenience, Minutes Per Pitch)
Yankees: 1.62 (.617)
Red Sox: 1.66 (.601)
Lg. Avg: 1.71 (.584)
Now, these numbers are certainly not definitive, as forcing more pitches will typically force the opposing club to make more pitching changes, which can add 3-5 minutes to a game. Furthermore, more pitches will usually mean more positive offensive events, which tend to add time to a game as well. Finally, these numbers do not differentiate between the Yankees or Red Sox and their opponents. The Yankees threw significantly fewer pitches than their opponents, so who is to say where the responsibility lies for extended game times under those circumstances?
However, simply looking at the data shows that Yankees’ games do take a bit more time per pitch. A Yankee game of 304.3 pitches at the league average rate of .584 minutes per pitch would result in games of 2:58 rather than 3:08 (Red Sox games should be taking 2:59). While 10 extra minutes are not catastrophic, they are not insignificant either. Let’s take a look at the 3 games in this series that prompted the outburst by West:
Game 1
326 pitches, 3:46 game time, 1.44 PPM, expected game time using lg. avg. MPP 3:10
Game 2
333 pitches, 3:48 game time, 1.46 PPM, EGT 3:15
Game 3
308 pitches, 3:21 game time, 1.53 PPM, EGT 3:00
Yes, all of the caveats I noted above still apply, and games with more runs (or extra innings) are likely to be longer, but Joe West had good reason to be upset last night. These games are dragged out by frequent mound visits, pitchers stepping off, and batters stepping out, among other things. While the slower nature of these contests may add tension and suspense for fans of the two clubs, it is likely hurting the entertainment value of the games for other baseball fans.
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18 Responses to Are The Yankees Really Taking Too Long To Play Games?
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TIQ IQ
Hold on, though… There’s a BIG difference between acknowledging that Yanks and Sox games take longer than the average game and concluding that Joe West “had good reason to be upset last night.”
He had good reason. Those games are 20-30 minutes too long. However, he had no business voicing his displeasure, which is what I believe you are getting at.
Voicing his displeasure with particular teams is a different issue altogether and he is clearly in the wrong in that regard, but I also take issue with the notion that he had reason to be upset. There is no reason for umpires to be upset with games that take longer than average. I understand that the umps have been tasked with helping games reach their conclusion faster, and they should do so (award balls to batters when pitchers take too long, monitor visits to the mound, etc.), but they have no reason to be upset if/when games take longer because teams are good, feature patient hitters and good pitchers that work to retire those patient hitters, and pitching changes and other moves result from those things. Joe West didn’t have good reason to be upset, and he certainly should not have voiced his displeasure to the media the way he did.
Umpires should be impartial judges, getting upset should be something they strive to strike from their emotional toolbox when they’re on the job. It has no place in the game.
That’s a fair point. He likely should just do his job and be impartial. That said, he’s human and has been tasked with fixing this issue, so I get his annoyance.
I hear you… I mean, yeah, I get why he’s annoyed… But I also think he should (a) grow up and (b) live up to the requirements/duties of his profession. Do I get why he was upset? Sure. But my stance is that he shouldn’t have been.
And what we can definitely agree on… Is that if he’s going to be upset, he simply can’t express those feelings publicly the way he did.
I agree there’s no need for the Umps to bring their own emotions to the game. That is completely out of place. I do however, completely understand their frustration with a batter that steps out after every pitch, including ones where he hasn’t swung and unsnaps and re-snaps both batting gloves, knocks the dirt off his spikes, adjusts his helmet, scratches himself, spits into his palm or eats a chicken sandwich. Calling for time was an adventure Monday when it wasn’t granted. Hell, why do you need time out? Is something happening that you haven’t experienced before? C’mon, play ball fer God’s sake.
Just cutting down on the commercials in those games would speed them up a bit.
I do agree that not allowing somebody to step out after every pitch would speed up the game quite a bit, and wouldn’t hurt the quality of play a bit. Limiting the number of visits to the mound by the catcher (or anyone else) would do likewise, as would limiting the amount of time between pitches.
But guys like West don’t want to really do that. They want the patient hitters to swing at more pitches out of the strike zone.
MLB umpires have had too much power for quite a long time, and I really don’t know why. Their strike zones are amoebas, their overall work is lazy and inept, and they cat like they’re the ones people come to watch. Whenever MLB tries to do anything to reign things in (like Questec), there’s a hue and cry, as if their ‘interpretation’ of the strike zone took precedence over what the rulebook says it is.
Until MLB grows a pair, this stuff will continue. They had a chance to regain control and threw it away. I doubt another will be coming along any time soon.
I’ve seen innings where Posada practically took every pitch out there verbally. I’d give the catcher two free trips per inning and the third one counts as an ‘official’, same as if the Pitching Coach came out.
How about doing a comparison between NY/Bos games ESPN televised vs local stations?
Good one. I dont have time today, but I’ll look into this.
From a competitive standpoint, these delays make sense, unfortunately. There are no repercussions for these delays, so why not take them? Baseball needs to institute some new rules to speed things up. Baseball games weren’t meant to be over three hours long.
That’s an excellent point. The teams use the advantages because the rules are not enforced/dont exist. Maybe West is placing the blame in the wrong direction?
Yep, that’s one of the points I think is most important. The teams are simply taking advantage of some of the mechanisms that give them what they feel is some sort of edge. The teams have not violated any rules that I’m aware of. And if they have, it certainly wasn’t enforced or clear.
If West has a gripe, and I think his point is legitimate, it shouldn’t be directed at the teams but at Selig’s office. Make clear, specific, enforceable mandates or deal with the current structure. But the players and teams shouldn’t feel the squeeze in this kind of manner.
A few thoughts:
*Limit the amount of time-outs a team can have per every half inning. This includes mound visits for players and coaches. Heck, that could even add some strategy to it.
*From the time the pitcher receives the ball, he’d only have X amount of seconds to throw the ball or the batter advances to first or it’s a balk. (Or however you want to do it, whatever.)
*The batter could only step out of the box X amount of times before it being considered an automatic out.
*Limit some of the loopholes in how coaches try to get their relievers a few extra BP sessions.
*Intentional walk pitchouts should be told to the umpire and the batter will immediately take 1st. No need to throw 4 pitches.
*Instant replay in the booth but not on balls and strike calls…
*…because computers now have a clear strike zone. Umps not needed behind the plate!
*Maybe something about how many times the pitcher can throw over to a base as a way of checking a runner?
The problem stems from MLB — not from the players or managers. I’m also not necessarily advocating making these changes. I’m just sort of thinking aloud on some measures that can be taken that wouldn’t greatly harm the game.
A great post on this at:
http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2010/04/more-on-joe-west-and-pace-of-yankeered.html#comment-43916559
That’s the same data I used here to get my results. The point is, even though there are more pitches, they are taking more time per pitch. While more runs scored might have something to do with that, I’m not sure it explains 10 extra minutes.
While you and I have the right to be upset about the pace of the games, the man whose job it is to enforce the rules that are supposed to quicken that pace certainly does not.
Joe West should be fired. The Yankees-Red Sox games are the best games the sport has to offer. No one cares that the games are too long. The ratings for these games are off the charts. Who cares if the game is longer. Certainly not the fans.
You know what: we are talking too much about Joe West and forgetting that his cuban friend, Angel Hernandez, had an awful series. When he was behind the plate, i think it was in game 2 of the series, he didn’t do anything terrible (i kinda liked his attempt to speed up the game), but when he was at 1st and 3rd base, in games 1 and 3, he missed a ton of calls. Swing/No Swing, Safe/Out etc…
And most calls weren’t even hard ones. He missed a bunch of easy ones!!!! How is it possible that a guy who everyone seems to hate so much and who finished 3 spots above the worst umpire in a Sports Illustrated poll is still calling MLB baseball???