Ex-Yankee and fan fave Bernie Williams popped by Spring Training this week, to visit some old friends and take part in the Opening Day ceremonies at Steinbrenner Field. The Daily News’ Mark Feinsand caught up with him and discussed a few things, most notably his chances at Cooperstown. He writes:
Williams, a five-time All-Star who won four Gold Gloves, a batting title and four World Series rings, says he realizes that his numbers aren’t as overwhelming as those of some others from his era – he hit .297 with 287 home runs and 1,257 RBI. The question remains: Will history – and Hall of Fame voters – view his career more favorably now that so many other players have been busted for using performance-enhancing drugs?
“How is it going to affect people that had sort of normal numbers?” Williams said yesterday at Yankees camp. “I don’t look at my career differently. My career is what it is. I have the satisfaction of saying that I played through a lot of pain, through a lot of injuries, and I never did anything like that. That’s probably reflected in my numbers.
“At the end of the day, it’s a very complicated issue,” Williams continued. “Who knows who did what and who can prove whatever? You just have to look at yourself in the mirror and say, ‘Did you do it the right way?’ I had a great time playing this game and I have no regrets.”
Maybe we should enlist ex-teammate (and BR junkie) David Cone to sit down with Bernie and tell him that we have a way of dealing with the era a player played in. It’s called OPS+. It is adjusted for the park and the league in which the player played, but not for fielding position. Bernie stands at +125 for his career. Not bad for a CF, but nowhere near immortal status. That ranks him 243rd on the All Time list, with other non-HOF CF’s such as Fred Lynn and Larry Doby ahead of him on the list. Advanced fielding metrics weren’t around when Bernie played, but by all accounts he was an inconsistent defender who was prone to lapses. His speed could outrun many of his mistakes, but his arm was generally considered poor, and it got worse as he aged. So much so that it was a big factor in him losing his starting job in Center late in his career after a particularly rough day facing the Red Sox.
We all loved Bernie, and he put up some monster seasons (1998) as a Yankee. From 1997-2002 he was one of the best hitting CF in the game, if not the best. But as with Mattingly, you need more than a great 5 year run to get inducted to the Hall. I just don’t see a future for him in Cooperstown.
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4 Responses to Bernie ponders his HOF chances
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TIQ IQ
I prefer wOBA to OPS+. Bernie’s .371 ties him with an ecclectic assortment – Tony Gwynn, Fred Lynn, and Nick Johnson, and just 1 point ahead of Sammy Sosa, Rod Carew, Yogi Berra, Kent Hrbek and Jorge Posada.
Maybe Bernie comes a little bit short for the HOF but I think you give him somewhat short shrift. Some points to consider which I will go through quickly and in less detail than I would like:
1- OPS+. “Maybe we should enlist ex-teammate (and BR junkie) David Cone to sit down with Bernie and tell him that we have a way of dealing with the era a player played in. It’s called OPS+. It is adjusted for the park and the league in which the player played, but not for fielding position. Bernie stands at +125 for his career.”
OPS+ may take into account the factors you mentioned but it doesn’t adjust for playing against people whose numbers were artificially inflated by PEDs . Would we think differently about Bernie regarding the HOF if his career OPS+ were 128? 130? 132? which it might have been if he had been playing on a level field.
2 – Doby, other HOF Center fielders, and those that merit Consideration.
Doby is fact in the HOF, elected by the Veterans Committee in 1998. Bernie clearly surpassed Doby in virtually all of the counting stats, which do have value in considering for the HOF.
Perhaps, a better example of Bernie’s offensive effectiveness would be to compare him to HOF CF Kirby Puckett. Bernie had a slightly better lifetime OPS+ than Puckett- 125 to 124- and clearly blows him away in most counting statistics- nearly 300 more runs scored,exactly 80 more HRs ,over 170 more RBIs.
Further, his offensive numbers- both counting and rate statistics- are better than HOF center fielders Ashburn, Roush, Combs and Averill, all admittedly elected by the Veterans Committee.
Finally, perhaps surprisingly Bernie had a superior lifetime OPS+ and better counting statistics overall than Dale Murphy though he obviously did not have the the peak that Dale had in the mid 1980s when he was the best player in the NL He stacks up favorably in the counting statistics with Lynn, Jim Edmonds and Andruw Jones while clearly surpassing the latter in OPS+.
3- Post season and place in history
These are not captured by the numbers people traditionally look at for the HOF but have to be considered. As much as I appreciate Catfish Hunter, it is questionable whether he would have made the HOF without his post season work for the Yankees and primarily for the AsBernie was the primary clean up hitter for the last team to win 3 WS in a row.He remains in the Top 3 of virtually every counting stat for post season play..Bernie’s post season play provides further separation from all of the CFers mentioned above.
Conclusion:
We all are aware of Bernie’s flaws- inconsistent CF, weak throwing arm, poor base runner for a man of his speed, somewhat brittle- but when you look at what he DID accomplish and compare him to others relevant to this conversation warts and all he looks pretty darn good.
not close to HOF…sorry bernie..
You’re making the classic hall of fame mistake, which is analyzing whether he deserves to be enshrined, as opposed to whether he will be. For example, while I agree with your assessment of Bernie’s defense, most voters will probably just look at his gold gloves and assume he was great. Add in the postseason numbers, and I think he’s got a decent shot.