Mark Feinsand of the NY Daily News reports that the Yanks are pursuing their starting pitching targets now that the talks between them and Johnny Damon appear to be at a standstill. He writes:
Brian Cashman is looking to add at least one more starter from outside the organization to a rotation that includes CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Pettitte, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. Such a move would allow him to move Hughes and/or Chamberlain to the bullpen.
While Cashman continues to monitor the Roy Halladay situation in Toronto, the general manager is looking at a couple of pitchers coming back from arm surgery: Justin Duchscherer and Ben Sheets.
Neither righthander pitched in 2009; Sheets has the longer track record. The Yankees have spoken with Sheets’ agent, Casey Close, but Sheets is looking for $11 million-$12 million after earning $11 million in 2008 – a price the Yankees are unlikely to meet. The Yankees were interested in signing him as a free agent last winter, but they opted to sign Burnett instead. Sheets went 13-9 with a 3.09 ERA in 2008, but there are questions about how he would fare in the American League after pitching his entire career in the NL with the Brewers.
Duchscherer, 32, went 10-8 with a 2.54 ERA in 2008, his first as a starter after four years in the A’s bullpen. He was chosen to the American League All-Star team in 2005 as a reliever, then again in 2008 as a starter. He had elbow surgery during spring training, then battled a bout of clinical depression in August.
A few things to address here. I agree that we could use a starter, having two young and still relatively unproven starters in Hughes and Chamberlain is a risky strategy heading into a season, as we saw in April/May of 2008. Yes, adding a starter would allow them to move either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes to the bullpen, but that’s assuming everyone else stays healthy. We all know that’s rarely the case with starting pitchers. With Sheets, he’s rarely been able to go wire to wire in any season without something going wrong physically, so the guy you’d be bringing in would be the most likely candidate for a DL stint. If this signing was to come to pass, expect both Joba and Hughes to prepare as starters, and then move to the bullpen on Opening Day assuming everyone’s healthy. If/when someone gets hurt, you have the option of sending them down to AAA to get stretched out, as well as the Chad Gaudins and Sergio Mitre’s of the world.
The longer track record of Ben Sheets makes him far more attractive (and expensive) than Duchscherer, who was a reliever until his breakout season in 2008. Sheets is a power pitcher who walks very few batters (2.0/9IP) and gets his share of Strikeouts (7.6/9IP). Those are numbers that translate anywhere. We know from last winter that Girardi’s a huge fan of Sheets, and his laid back style would fit in well with his fellow starters CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett. A reunion with former teammate CC Sabathia would smooth the transition as well, and Sheets may be able to learn something from AJ Burnett. He was an injury-prone power pitcher who’s learned what it takes to stay on the field and has actually become something of a workhorse for the past few seasons.
If anything Duchscherer would be the far bigger question mark in the AL East, who had a slightly higher walk rate (2.2/9IP) and lower Strikeout rate (6.2/9IP) in his one season as a starter. I must admit the clinical depression report bothers me as well. I know that it came while he was on the DL, and was not due to anything performance-related, but New York is a tough place to play. Its a big media town with a rabid fan base coming off a World Series championship. Expectations couldn’t be higher, and Baseball is constantly a game of failure. You need a thick skin to play here even under the best of circumstances. The Yanks are held to a higher standard than any other franchise in this town, perhaps any other franchise in professional sports. We’ve seen far too many players come through here who either couldn’t handle it or just didn’t want to. Character matters, being a Yankee isn’t for everyone, and shouldn’t be.
For me, the clear choice is Sheets. Both pitchers are coming off elbow operations, so that’s a wash. While Duchscherer would likely cost far less, I still don’t view that money as well spent. Too many questions about how he will translate in the AL East. Sheets has the stuff and makeup to pitch in New York and succeed. I would do it even if it meant passing on Johnny Damon and signing a lesser OF like Mike Cameron, or not signing one at all and playing Melky in Left. Pitching wins, and when healthy Ben Sheets is one of the top pitchers in the game.
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14 Responses to Yanks Looking at Sheets, Duchscherer
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12 million is a ridiculous number. I’ll take Sheets for Rich Harden money, and its hard to see any team giving him more than that.
I could not agree more with the argument in this posting. New York is a high-stress environment and clinical depression is notoriously difficult to treat. Duchscherer would be best off pitching in another city without the constant media attention and relentless expectations.
Thus far, no one has offered Sheets the kind of money his agent has demanded. That is part of the negotiating process, of course — agents ask for something ridiculous first, then settle for more realisitc numbers. If some team will guarantee Sheets $12 million, he’ll sign. But it is more realistic to expect him to sign for a solid base ($8 million) with performance incentives that could net him $12 million if he stays healthy.
I am as big a Sheets fan as there is. I believe fully that his stuff will translate to the AL East very well, and that he would be a MAJOR upgrade. The recovery time from the surgery is 6-12 months, and so he should be ready for Spring Training, even if he starts slow and isn’t starting in the rotation until May. That said…
… I am a therapist. Depression is bad, but it affects over 200 million people worldwide, and more that don’t seek help for it. A major portion of the depression correlates with the failed marriage, but more so the separation from his son. A person who can talk about the depression he feels has dealt with it. The person who is too afraid to discuss it is a person to worry about. I would have much more concern over his possiblity of being a “One Year Wonder” then the depression. Also, I would be much more concerned about Zach Greinke then Duch, because Greinke had a social anxiety disorder. In fact, I think Duch would do well in New York because he will not be relied on to anchor a staff, and more importantly, would be close to his son who lives in New Jersey.
Again, I would love Sheets. I saw him at the All Star Game, and he made the hitters look silly. As a number 3 or 4, and on a one year deal with draft picks coming if he leaves, he would be a phenomenal addition. Just don’t fall into the public stigma that people who suffer from depression are weak and can’t cut it when there is pressure in involved.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, I was simply saying that NYC is hard enough for players to adjust to, added factors make him less of a safe bet. I think that’s a fair statement to make, though I’m no expert.
I agree completely. He was likely overpaid in 2008 and now against the crappy economy and a year off with his effectiveness in question, he wants a raise? Go talk to Bobby Abreu. Much more likely is something like Andy P. had last year.
Clinical depression isn’t a matter of having a thin or thick skin. Its a medical condition. People need to stop treating this like we still live in the dark ages.
No people need to stop being coddled since the time they are 5 years old! The more you keep someone from failure the harder they are going to take it when they finally face it and then you end up with a nation of people needing pills to get through a day, it’s really sad that society accepts such brain washing as to believe everyone is unhappy unless they take a pill.
Sorry, sir, you don’t understand what clinical depression is. It has NOTHING to do with being coddled OR with failure (or thick/thin skin). I obviously can’t speak to his diagnosis, but we are talking about a medical condition. It occurs in people who have rich families or poor families, loving ones or harsh ones. It is a blind disease. Duke clearly had bad outings before this happened. He had been booed before (and thats not what triggered this bout of depression; he was dealing with death, divorce, injury, family separation and NOT his curveball failing to sink properly). Now, the fact that he suffers from this is a real issue and red flag. But because he it may get the better of him, not because he’s going to get booed in NYC. This isn’t a fragile ego situation.
But yes, I do agree that we can have a tenancy to coddle our kids too much, it’s just this isn’t about that.
I am not going to read this because this is not the time or place to discuss my vast amounts of beliefs and disagreements with a vast amount of things….
I will only say that while some people may actually have an actual problem with depression as it deals with the brainn and lack of chemicals and what not but there are way to many people on depression pills that aren’t truly depressed and aren’t truly in need of these drugs. It’s waaaay over done! People are fed waaay to many drugs!
Lets stick to baseball!
Agree with the prevailing sentiment that no way Sheets sees $ 12 million/ salary base. He may have a significantly higher ceiling than Duchscherer but that ceiling has significant cracks.Not only did he miss the entire 2009 season but between 2005 and 2007 he averaged ~135 innings/season. A contract along the lines of Pettite 2008 or Harden 2010 seems like the best he can do at this time.
As for Duchscherer, I think his potential value is being underrated. Not only will he likely be significantly less costly but his history of arm trouble is considerably less extensive. As for his ability to pitch in the AL Easr, consider these numbers against the Yankees and Boston in 2008 and lifetime against the teams he would be facing in the AL East.
2008 Opponent Innings Hits ER
May 24 Bos 8 1 0
June 11 NY 7 5 1
July 20 NY 7 5 2
August Bos 6 5 1
Lifetime
Team W-L ERA
Balt 2-0 2.78
Bos 2-0 1.83
Tampa 2-1 1.48
Toronto 1-0 3.09
Admittedly a small sample but pretty darn good. Further, Duchscherer has had previous success in the bullpen allowing the Yankees considerable flexibility. This can allow Aceves or Robertson to compete for a spot in the rotation,allow Duchschere to slide into the rotation if Chamberlain or Hughes have problems,or Duchscherer can pitch in the rotation right form the outset among other possibilities.
Agree with previous sentiment that Duchscherer’s previous emotional problems may have been overstated and that proximity to his son should be beneficial.All in all, I think Duchscherer would be a good gamble.
I’ve always felt the difference between a clinically depressed person and everybody else who has issues in life and is very down, is that some people wake up in the morning and feel depressed but also feel responsible to others who are counting on them and they would feel great shame and embarrassment if they stayed in bed, so they get up, stay depressed and go on with life, are productive and eventually feel better.
The others stay in bed and are clinically depressed.
Sheets is the clear move at this point, pitching wins championships and trying to go through the playoffs a 2nd time with only 3 pitchers is a recipe for disaster!
I do have one thing to disagree with though, why send Joba to the bullpen if we sign Sheets? Wouldn’t it make more sense given the fact that Sheets is injury prone and so is AJ and Pettitte to send Joba to Scranton? He needs to keep developing as a starter so instead of making him a setup man and then sending him to Scranton to stretch out ad have to find a setup man to replace him and then bring him up and hope he can be an OK starter wouldn’t you just send him to triple A to begin with so he can develop himself as a starting pitcher and be able to gain his velocity and confidence back?
Seems to me that I would much rather have Joba getting the triple A development he was forced to miss out on rather than once again send him to the pen, the whole problem started with sending him to the pen and then having 1000 different rules to turn him back into a starter with.
If he starts the year with Scranton he can work on his secondary pitches, keeping his velocity up and mixing his pitch selection up without each game costing us in the standings… To me that makes a lot more sense than sending him to the Bullpen where he will either A.) Never escape from and never become a starter again or B.) have to be sent down to Scranton anyway to stretch himself out except he won’t be able to work on pitch selection or developing his secondary pitches because he will be completely turning back into a starter again and we would have to deal with a whole new set of problems again.
In theory, sending Joba to AAA for work is good. One problem I see with it is; some players play to the level of the competition, therefor, I would keep him on the team. Out of the BP, he can be told to throw whatever the catcher calls. Having the catcher call for all his pitches will make him work on them harder…also, if he comes in to a game in the 6/7th, let him go a few innings. What hitter wants to face a RP that can/will throw 3/4 different good pitches at them.
Either way they go should make sense, they know him and his habits better then we do.
Adding Sheets and Duchscherer gives us the Yanks the possibility of moving Duchscherer to the ‘pen if the rotation doesnt work out. And as classic Steve says he has good numbers against teams en the AL east. He will be in the bottom of the rotation so he will not have as much pressure on him as he did in Oakland.
If Ben Sheets agrees to a lower contract then we should take them both.