From Keith Law:
For the Yankees, adding Vazquez means either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes will start the season in the bullpen. It probably also signals that the Yankees feel one of them belongs there, most likely Hughes at this point. If the organization believed that both pitchers eventually would work out as starters in the majors, it would be more willing to give both rotation spots and back them up with a lesser option than Vazquez, who was, as you might have heard, the second-best pitcher in the National League this past season.
I do not agree with Keith’s take here, due to the following points:
- The Yankees did not hold these guys back in Halladay and Lee trades to keep them in the bullpen long term.
- They did not go out and add someone with a long deal who would crowd the rotation into the future. Rather, they brought in a workhorse with one year remaining on his contract.
- It is certainly possible that Andy Pettitte will retire after 2010, meaning the club may have two rotation spots open in 2011.
All of this tells me one thing: Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes are still starters in the eyes of the organization. Joba, in particular, is finally free of innings limits, and I find it hard to believe that they will reach that point and then stick him in the bullpen. Regarding the Yankees’ other young hurler, Phil Hughes is just 23. Another season of 100-120 IP is not going to kill him or make him an untenable starting option in the future. It is significantly more plausible to fathom that Brian Cashman felt it unlikely that his top 3 starters would stay healthy for a second full season and decided that he needed someone that he could count on for 200 innings to bolster the rotation for 2010. Importing too much meaning into a move for a player on a one year deal is silly.
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18 Responses to What Does This Mean For Joba and Hughes?
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TIQ IQ
I see your point, but my initial reaction (and comment in the other thread) was similar to Keith’s (if only I got paid to think and write about sports). You may be right long-term (especially if 2 roster spots open next yr) but if Hughes goes back to the Pen (which in all likelihood will happen this year) and does what he did last year I find it hard to beleieve he will ever be a starter.
Hughes has never had a single extended chance in the rotation. I see no way at all that he never gets that shot.
I don’t dispute your statement, I just think it is conceivable that Joba excels in the rotation this year (lessening the need for another starter next year) and Hughes excels in the Pen (increasing the odds that the Yanks keep him there).
Means Joba can eat more pork ribs and Hughes can work on his “frustration” issues.
You are not very funny
I think the Yankees decided that with a team built to win now, the safe approach to young starting pitching is to introduce not more than one per year to the rotation. Chamberlain had only a partial starting job in 2009 due to his innings limit. To rely heavily on him and Hughes in 2010 would have been risky in a division in which their primary rival seems to have upgraded itself. I don’t see any of this as foreclosing future starting roles for both pitchers. Whether that is with the Yankees or another team remains to be seen.
Completely agree. The last time we depended on 2-3 youngsters in the rotation did not work out well for us. For a team going for a championship year after year, its hard to phase in more than 1 youngsters into the rotation at a time. Next year will be Phil’s turn, with AJ and Vazquez coming off the books.
I believe you may have meant Pettitte; AJ signed a five-year deal before last season.
Pettitte and vasquez come off next year thats 23mil.. if MO decides not to pitch thats another 15mil.38mil to play with smells like cliff lee to me..
Mo, at least one of them will wind up in the bullpen this year though I agree the organization views both as starters long term.
But for this year, they may split it up. Let Joba start the season in the rotation, and if he’s not pitching well then have Hughes take over around the All Star break and put Joba in the bullpen.
I think that would be a bad idea, they need to stick with whatever they start with! What if Hughes is excelling in the pen as the setup man and Joba is struggling somewhat, you switch them and Hughes struggles in the rotation and Joba is mad at the demotion and doesn’t do as well as Hughes?
I’ll agree with Moshe on this (and I feel we’ve had a similar conversation before). Hughes and Joba are still viewed as long-term starters, as they should be. This deal potentially pushes Hughes (since Joba’s further along in development and without innings limits) to the bullpen, but really, it shouldn’t and I doubt it will. If anything, I’d prefer him to be in AAA developing his pitches, getting some innings under his belt. Starter goes down, boom, you have Phil. At worst, he should be a swingman-type, but only if he gets a fair amount of innings. Under no circumstance do I want to see him lose more development time throwing mostly fastballs for one inning a few games a week. But hey, that’s just my take on it.
I would prefer the same thing as well. Phil Hughes needs time to develop his pitches and if is in the Yankees bullpen, he would only throw mainly fastballs and curveballs putting no attention towards his cutter which needs time to be perfected. His innings limit should be around 150 innings. The best option for his long term development, would be for him to start in AAA at the beginning of the season barring any injuries from occurring.
The trade for Javier Vasquez solidifies this rotation as it brings another durable pitcher like CC Sabathia into the rotation. Burnett may have had no injuries the past two seasons, but his injury history can’t be ignored. Pettitte is 37 years old which makes the possibility of injury more likely than if he was a few years younger. Obtaining Javier Vasquez may be a ploy as a move to solidify the rotation with a durable starter as burnett has the injury history, Pettitte is getting older, and with Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes both being young and inexperienced.
Javier Vasquez allows the Yankees to not throw 2 young pitchers into a rotation where development is overlooked and success is the only thing that matters.
The minor leagues and prospects exist to help the big league club win. I never put a players development over giving him a role in the bigs where he can help us win games. That’s putting the cart before the Horse.
Also, we went through this last year and Phil himself requested he stay in the bigs rather than be sent to AAA to ‘hone his craft’. Have to take that into consideration as well.
I think he can gain valuable experience working out of the bullpen in the bigs. David Cone often refers to his early bullpen years as crucial to his development as a starter.
Honestly, i still believe that Joba and Phil Hughes should start playing in the bullpen. They may have MLB and post-season experience but they are still young and raw. They have a lot to improve on and they will gain that from coming out of the pen.
Consistency, pitching control and increase number of innings is what they should improve on.
I think one thing to keep in mind about Vazquez is that, for every year he spent in the American League, he was on very, very, bad defensive teams. Especially the outfield defense.
And I meant to put this in the last thread. Fuck.
Hughes cannot go more than three innings. He can’t start. Joba, brilliant as a powerhouse reliever…..can’t do it for 7 innings.
Reality: Yanks desperate for starters…Javy – Gaudin – Aceves
Both Hughes and Joba the Pork need to stay in the pig-pen PERMANENTLY!