[image title="Montero" size="full" id="13510" align="center" ]I hope everyone is having an excellent holiday season. Mine has been a bit busy, and I wasn’t planning on writing today. However, some of the comments here and from other bloggers regarding Jesus Montero’s top-5 BA rating (which is a bigger deal than most people realize) have planted some thoughts in my mind for a few days that I’d like to write about.
I think that Jesus Montero is going to be a major league catcher. I think that the Yankees think so too, and that their 2009 offseason helped reveal their long term plans for the young player. Consider the facts:
- The Yankees were reluctant to trade Jesus Montero. While some rumors have him offered up, none seemed particularly serious. Pieces that could be immediately useful to the Yankees in 2010 – Austin Jackson, Michael Dunn, Phil Coke, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera – all went away, but Jesus stayed. Now, this could be because the Yankees want to get more value from Montero, but I think that they want him to play a long term position on the New York Yankees.
- Every public comment ever uttered by the Yankees indicates that they consider him a catcher. Mark Newman is generally an incredibly frank guy. When Chad Jennings interviewed him at his old Triple-A blog, he would commonly say things like, “If this guy doesn’t work harder, he may end up a reliever” or “We’re not sure where on the field he’ll end up.” Yet, he never said, “Jesus may or may not catch long term.” This may just be a ploy to up his trade value, but I doubt it.
- The Yankees filled his spots. If Jesus Montero were to move from catcher, he would probably move to 1st base. However, you could also see the man playing 3rd base, since he has a strong arm and has reported to be reasonable agile. He doesn’t have any real foot speed, so even left field would be a problem. He may be able to play there, but he would be Adam Dunn in the outfield. The Yankees have filled 1st and 3rd for the better part of the decade. Short of making Montero the game’s youngest DH-only player ever, catcher is the only spot.
So, I think its clear that the Yankees consider Montero a catcher. However, its less clear whether or not their logic is strong. Jesus is a big guy – I’m 6’4″ 220 lbs, and I can’t moving around squatting like big league catchers do. Montero is actually a bit lighter than me, which means he doesn’t have a ton of muscle on his bones yet (I’m by no means jacked), and he likely will add some. But even with this said, I think that there are a few things worth saying about him:
- He’s improved. BA scouts were basically laughing at him while writing about his defense in rookie ball. He was called an embarrassment, and a no-doubt first baseman in the near future. A year later, the line was “He’s improved, but still really bad.” This year, the line is, “He’s improved, but still well below average.” See a theme? Like his hitting Montero has gotten better every year. There is no reason to believe that this will stop.
- He’s young. I think we need a little perspective. Jesus Montero is 20 years old. That’s really young for a prospect who has come as far as he has. Tons of minor league shortstops, for example, are hitting 50 errors at this point in their defensive development (Derek Jeter did it that way). Young players at certain positions have to learn defense on a curve just like they do hitting. Especially catchers.
- He’s a hard worker. Everything we’ve ever heard about Montero says that he is an exceptionally dedicated young player. He not only works on his hitting and physical strength, but also his defense. He’s not going to be Manny Ramirez out there.
- He was a part time catcher for 2 years. Austin Romine probably hurt Montero’s defensive development a bit. Not that the Yankees should have done things differently, but you can’t expect someone to learn a tough position playing 3 days a week. Only recently did Montero separate from Romine and begin catching every single day. Since doing so, we’ve heard the best news yet about his defensive progress.
- Hitting cures all woes. Honestly, Jorge Posada is and has been for awhile a bad defensive catcher. We don’t really care when he slugs .500. No one really cares about Victor Martinez or cared about Mike Piazza for the same reason. Jesus Montero can hit as well as Piazza did if everything goes right. Think about that.
I think he’s a catcher. The Yankees appear to think so too. Jorge Posada is on the way out. Montero is on the way in, for now at least. Even if he’s a catcher now, he may be a 1st baseman by the time he’s 27. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Photo Credit: Cliff Welch/MLB.com
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31 Responses to Jesus Montero Is A Catcher
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TIQ IQ
I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as you make it seem:
1) The Yankees weren’t as reluctant to trade Montero as you make it seem. It appears that they DID offer him to Toronto for Halladay. Perhaps they did so knowing that the Blue Jays were never serious about trading to Halladay to New York, making (as Seinfeld would put it) an “un-proposal” but the fact remains that they DID make him available in at least one trade scenario.
2) I would take in-house comments with a grain of salt. How would it behoove the Yankees to dilute Montero’s trade value by saying he won’t make it as a big league catcher? The Yanks may indeed see Montero as a permanent fixture behind home plate but it’s not beyond the Yankees (or any other team, for that matter) to spin things in the most favorable light possible. As such, nothing the Yanks say publicly gives us any true insight on how they see things behind the scenes.
3) There’s no such thing as a filled spot in baseball. Everyone can be traded, even the best players in the game. After all, Alex Rodriguez was already traded once, even after signing the then-richest contract in sports history. That isn’t to say that the Yanks intend on trading Rodriguez (or Teixeira), merely to point out that filled spots today don’t mean filled spots tomorrow.
4) It’s interesting that Baseball America’s scouting reports differ so much from what Yankee-centric blog posts are saying about Montero’s defensive future. According to BA’s reports, Montero profiles as an unathletic, slow-footed player behind home plate and does indeed profile best as a full-time DH.
5) Posada is a bad defensive catcher that has, at various points in his career, played competent defense. It’s preposterous to assume that a bad defensive catcher in the minor leagues is the same as a bad defensive catcher in the big leagues.
I am thrilled that Montero has made it up to the #5 spot in BA’s prospect list but blind optimism should be tempered a little bit…
All these points are accurate (from what I can tell). It just makes it all the more impressive that he is the number 5 prospect in all of baseball.
I do think that people gloss over the point that Montero was a PART TIME catcher for two years. Considering his young age, and rapid growth, his future is far from written. I don’t think anyone who is a rational fan that understands what being a prospect really entails is able to say that he WILL BE a catcher. However, with the evidence provided, it is just as likely that he will be a catcher then he will not. Moving him to first base, ala Carlos Delgado, is not the worst thing. If his bat really is that of a 40 HR, .300 hitter, that would be un-fricken-believable.
How much credit do we really want to give BA? They were dead wrong on Montero as a hitter for two years. It took them a lot longer than the Yankee blogs you mention to get on board the bandwagon. BA sends one of their writer/scouts to one or two games to watch these top guys. They use zone reporting for a lot of them too.
I’ll give BA credit for being the main clearinghouse of information on prospects. No, they don’t always get it right and, yes, they sometimes do have an agenda, but they write up their reports based on the observations of many scouts over a period of time, not just one guy showing up to a game once, seeing a good player on an off-day and then saying that player stinks. You’re discounting BA as much as you think I’m overselling them.
The fact remains that you didn’t address points 1, 2, 3 or 5 from my comments. Those are still legitimate arguments to factor in when discussing Montero’s future.
I’ll agree with your other points, except for point #1. We have one report, I believe from Heyman, to that effect. I’m really not sure at all that it happened. Otherwise, I do agree that it is perfectly reasonable, based on the evidence, to suggest that Montero’s defensive ceiling is bad catcher.
We will see this year. He needs to be healthy and catch the season in AAA. The Yankees biggest
position player risk this year is Posada. If Jorge is healthy then the Yankees can win it all again. If we see Montero this year for the Yankees then we are in trouble. The fact is that Mauer is just as tall and weiters is taller than montero so tall guys can catch. There must be something more than height at issue.
There are always exceptions to the rules. I believe that A.J. Pierzynski is tall as well. However, more often then not, catchers are smaller to better allow their mass to quickly shift around. Also, tall people tend to carry more weight, even if it’s evenly dispersed, which tends to slow people down. I especially enjoyed when EJ gave his statistics, lol.
Yes, Montero is a catcher, that’s never been the question.Question is will he be bad catcher.Answer is probably.
Secondly, what would YAnkees possibly have to gain by saying, “Montero is our best prospect, unfortunately he can’t play catcher.’
Montero is an asset of the Yankees organization.Demeaning ones own assets would be quite stupid.Why not just say, “We project Jesus as a catcher, he’s improving every day.”
Nothing untrue there.
I think Romine will be the catcher Higiashioka the back-up in about 3 years.JR Murphy is a wildcard and of course Gary Sanchez is so ridiculousy young.
“Catcher” isn’t just a state of being. It requires tons of instruction, coaching, physical training, and differences in playing that other positions do not. The Yankees haven’t done a single thing to indicate that they have a Plan B with Montero. There are plenty of costs associated with keeping their top hitting prospect at the position. Trade value is important, but the Yankees seem dedicated to the position.
There is something more than height. Those guys are much more athletic than Montero is. Regardless, though, Montero–like Hughes and Chamberlain starting–should get as many chances as he needs to stick as a catcher. He should only be moved when it’s absolutely clear that he cannot play there.
Exactly. This kid came out of nowhere Venezuala. He probably had mediocre, if any, defensive coaching his entire life until the Yankees. Compare that to what Mauer and Weiters probably have been through. He may be slow but I bet a dime to a dollar that there have been many equally slow-footed catchers. With catchers, the only thing that you can not coach is the arm. If you have that (and Montero’s grades highly) then you can teach him to be a decent catching. Piazza had no arm. Give this kid at least two more seasons of professional coaching and we will see an MLB catcher. In addition, count how many .300, 30-40 HR guys there are in MLBe and you will quickly see why this guy is rated so highly.
What you are not listing though is that a person who is 6’4″ carries more weight then a guy who is 5’9″. Those 7 inches mean the difference between a guy who is 170 and 240. I don’t think he should be ruled out of anything. What I DO think though, is that Mauer and Weiters are quick footed, and that is BEFORE the footwork that, as you say, is being drilled into their heads. Some people are just freaks, it’s what makes some people Hall of Famers (not saying Weiters is, just saying certain people are).
Easy fix , throw his glove away, full time Dh.. he won;t wear down.. but will wear down AL pitchers. all who have not seen this guy take time out to see him in person.. you will be impressed, i promise..just listen to the sound that comes off his bat..
I don’t want a catcher that hits .300 with 30 HR’s if the pitchers can’t throw to him.He’d be a greater liability than a catcher who hits .275 with 10-15 HR’s but knows how to manage a game, like it appears Romine and Higiashioka can.
The throwing is important but secondary.Jorge used to be able to throw and still was a liability defensively.
A great defensive catcher helps you like at no other position.He upgrades the pitching and therefore the entire team.
Seriously? I would take that any day of the week. Do you realize how many catchers hit .300 and 30? Piazza, Pudge, Mauer… the options are VERRRRRRRRRRRY scarce. That would give them the option of signing Crawford and Cliff Lee (for instance) instead of signing Mauer (not that I think they would. They would still sign Mauer over them and deal Montero)
A great hitting catcher>>>>>>>>>a decent hitting catcher and good game manager. Games can be managed from the bench, at bats can’t.
Yeah, I’d be totally alright with that. Mike Piazza Part Two would be absolutely fantastic.
When I saw Montero behind the plate he honestly dind’t look to bad, but with the catching depth in the organization, his size, and his bat, I just don’t see him sticking there long term. It simply doesn’t make sense.
I’m getting pretty excited to see him at Triple-A this year. I wish he hadn’t been in Trenton while I was so busy over the summer, and then injured once I got less busy.
Yea Piazza made a lot of teams win the World Series.He really uplifted those pitching staffs.People should look past stats and open their eyes and watch the games sometimes.
So Posada must have really uplifted those pitching staffs, hunh? That has to be what your eyes are telling you, right? Posada… a true defensive wizard.
Dude, ok Posada is no whiz defensively but who do you want catching when Mo’s doing what he does? Or who does Mo want to throw to? How about the fact that CC had an incredible postseason throwing to good ol’ Jorge. Maybe leftylarry has a point, maybe you shouldn’t read into stats so much, I mean most stats are posted on the internet for fantasy context anyway, to make money of course, but individual stats are really meaningless in team sports. In my most humble opinion stats should be used to quantify what you see on the field not to define what takes place on the field.
There’s no question that Jesus Montero can hit and has some power. The concern is his mobility and his defensive capabilities especially playing in the catcher’s position.
He is huge 6’4″, 225 lbs. Not a ideal height and weight for a regular catcher. He is still young and has a lot of time to grow and improve his skill.
If he turns out to be a good or average catcher, the Yankees might past on Joe Mauer and concentrate more on starting pitching.
If World Series appearances is how we judge catchers, then Jorge Posada is one of the best catchers ever. The teams for which Mike Piazza played for would have been worse off if they had primary catchers that weren’t Mike Piazza.
Jay et al.,
I am amazed that we pretend to be more expert than the Yankees themselves. Seriously, do you honestly believe that the Yankees (1) know that he cannot catch; yet (2) are sacrificing his development and forcing him to catch in the hopes of fooling someone into trading for him? We constantly talk about single A pitchers (that have about a 5% chance of making) it as if they are a sure thing. But we dismiss Montero as a catcher based on two years of training and despite the fact that the Yankees are committed to his development at that position. We all understand the height/weight/mobility dynamic. I may be a little older than a few of you guys but I learned that 5’10″ was tall for
tennis and hockey players and that 6’0″-6’2″ weas it for point guards.
Further Leftlarry, how do you know that he cannot handle pitchers or manage the game? Please cite the source that says that he doesn’t manage the game well.
I am not saying that Montero catching is a sure thing but I also don’t put much weight into any of these purported evaluations. The same guy that is number 5 now was probably number 50 last year. They don’t know shit. Montero just turned 20. He is going to AAA. The World Chapion New York Yankees think he may improve enough to be a major league catcher. Good enough. Let’s see him play and hope they are right.
Good work JD!
This is the year when it will tell us Jesus Montero’s potential. There are parts of his game as a catcher that he needs to continue to work on in order to play this position at the major league level. The first is his lower body mobility which has been a problem for him in the past. He allows alot of past balls and wild pitches during his minor league career that need to drop to a more manageable level. His caught stealing rate has increased do to better footwork, but he still needs to work on it in AAA. On the offensive side, his game is that of a phenom and if he is able to stick behind the plate with that type of offensive potential than we have a perennial superstar.
People seem to forget that this kid is only 20 years old by a month and still has plenty of time to develop into an average defensive catcher. A year in AAA should help determine whether he can be a catcher and help the Yankees find a way to implement his bat in the future, but right now they see him as a catcher until proven otherwise. If the Yankees believe that his future is him as a catcher, I will take their word for it, as I like most fans have not seen this kid catch one game in his minor league career. The Yankees signed this player, placed him starting in the GCL level, and now he has risen through the farm system all the way to AAA, and yet as an organization they don’t know better than people who probably have not seen this kid play one game. As a 20 year old, Jesus Montero still has plenty of time to learn and improve at the position.
Posada is a big part of the reason we lost so many years in a row with the highest payroll,until this year.He makes pitchers worse, not better.
leftylarry, i agree, last year how many balls down and in went by him , or balls off his glove, a play at the plate….he will never take contact drops every ball..always out of position for throws home. he is bobby abreu..if he DHs 50 60 games he will hit. his days are gone as far as defensive skills. piazza should have come to the AL after La.. he would have 500 plus HRs and a HOFer for sure..he was crazy for the lead in HRs as a catcher..a stat nobody cares about. and thats posadas mentality…{i’m a catcher}.. was a catcher. wake up jorge..
I think his bat will play perfectly well to his being a poor-defensive MLB catcher. However I don’t see this being his long-term solution. Catching is simply too damaging to the body, especially one the size of montero’s, to risk diminishing the returns on that bat, especially in a league that allows for a DH. That said, I think it would be brilliant to employ Montero as the primary backup catcher (to spell the primary catcher, not for defensive purposes) while simultaneously “full-time” DHing. I think he should also get some work in at 1B, 3B, LF, and RF, so that the yankees always have the option of semi-resting any of their aging regulars without losing a bat in the lineup. My biggest concern with Montero catching, though, would not be his performance at the position but the damage it could inflict upon his incredibly gifted body. People don’t like the idea of a 22 year old full-time DH, but if that full-time DH could also function as an offense-first backup at four or five different positions, then it becomes much more agreeable, I think.
Jesus Montero doesn’t have the wear and tear of other catchers in the minors, since he split his time as a DH and catcher during the first two full seasons in the minor leagues. The only problem that I have is that he may outgrow the position. If he sticks as a catcher he should be able to last awhile behind the plate. The best move for the Yankees is to increase the amount of times he catches but still give him move days off and time at the DH throughout the year than a regular catcher.