UPDATE: (2:00 PM) (EJ) – MLB Trade Rumors has it. The Yankees will acquire Granderson for Ian Kennedy, Austin Jackson, and Phil Coke, pending a medical check. Full reactions later tonight.
UPDATE (12:06 pm) — From both Jon Heyman and Mark Feinsand, we’re hearing that the deal could still occur. Feinsand claims that the Tigers might be “caving on its price for Granderson,” and then states that the Yankees could find themselves in a position where one of their three pitchers rumored in the deal — Ian Kennedy, Michael Dunn, Phil Coke — would be downgraded. He speculates that Dunn would be the likeliest Yankee left out of the package (they would replace him with a lesser player).
11:58 am — In his latest, Buster Olney (ESPN) provides us with a quick update on the rumored three-way trade between the Tigers, Yankees, and the Diamondbacks which would send “Curtis Granderson to the Yanks, along with a prospect or two from the D’Backs. Arizona would obtain Edwin Jackson from the Tigers and Ian Kennedy from the Yankees. The Tigers would obtain Max Scherzer from the D’Backs and Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Michael Dunn from the Yanks” (h/t to MLBTR). According to Olney, the “only way the threads of this would be picked up would be if one of the teams that disagreed with the proposal does a dramatic turnaround from its stance of Monday.” Based on what we’ve heard, including a tweet today from Jon Heyman (SI), the Yankees were the team that truly rejected the proposal based on the high prospect cost, which led to the current impasse in negotiations.
But, as Joel Sherman (NY Post) noted earlier, the stalled talks are likely just a part of the acquirement process. “It seems pretty clear that [the Yankees] want Granderson,” says Sherman, “and, generally, what the Yankees want they ultimately find a way to get.” He even goes as far as to say that the reports about the trade being dead exist merely to “downplay” the situation. We should learn more about the state of the deal throughout the day, so stay tuned.
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72 Responses to Update: Yankees Acquire Granderson
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TIQ IQ
Good grief, Mike Cameron is a free agent. Why would the Yanks trade ANYTHING or ANYONE for Granderson when the same player is just sitting out there waiting to be signed?
Granderson is younger and signed to a reasonable deal. I would probably make this deal, being that Jackson is unlikely to ever be as good as Granderson, but I can clearly see why people would oppose it.
1) Approximately $25M over the next three years (assuming the $13M club option isn’t excercised for the 2013 season), PLUS trading valuable prospects
-or-
2) $12M for one season of the same performance from an albeit older player
I just don’t get how this makes sense. Getting younger and more athletic are noble aims but that doesn’t mean you have to overpay to get there. When there’s low-hanging fruit, how can you pass it up?
Maybe the Yankees intend on signing another OF. It might not be Granderson and that’s it. They could still sign Cameron after trading for Granderson. They would then have one of the best outfields in the game, and would have improved their defense by a remarkable amount.
Wouldn’t Granderson, Cameron, the cash invested in both and the prospects sent packing be a waste of money and resources and represent a redundancy in both players?
If they’re highly valuable players, is that a bad thing? You have to give to get and Granderson has been one of the best OF’s in the AL since 2006.
Granderson plus Cameron = about 300 K per year, a huge rally-killing effect. Neither fits my ideal, but both in the same line-up would be trouble. You have to save a LOT of runs on defense to make up for that.
4 win CF’ers under 30 don’t come up very often. Coke and Dunn are far from valuable prospects, and Kennedy is a question mark.Holding up this deal over guys like Kennedy, Coke, and Dunn is pure prospect hugging. Holding it up over A-Jax is not. If the Yankees internally do not believe that Jackson will ever be as good as Granderson, they should make this deal. If they think there is a decent shot that he could approximate Granderson’s value, then don’t.
Regarding Cameron, they could always sign him as well. That would be a strong defensive outfield.
I guess it all boils down to what they think of Jackson’s chances are for future succes in the big leagues. Personally, I’d rather pay for Cameron for one year and give Jackson one mroe season in AAA before we give up on him. He’s still young for his level and he’s exactly the kind of athlete the Yanks have been talking about inserting into their lineup for years now.
To me, Cameron and Granderson only differ in age. You cite Granderson as a 4-win player but Cameron’s exactly the same (and more consistent, or rather, with less performance fluctuation) AND the better defensive CF to boot.
Following what I said above, wouldn’t Cameron and Granderson on the same team — and the costs associated with acquiring both — represent waste and redundancy?
They are certainly going to bring in another player, either for LF or DH. I could see them making this Granderson deal, signing one of Cameron or Damon (do you want offense or defense), and then dealing Melky to pick up a lefty reliever to replace Coke.
Considering that an argument can be made for Granderson being an extreme platoon player (can’t hit LHP), I’d rather Cameron and Damon and keep the prospects…
Cameron in LF and Granderson in CF would be one hell of a defense and in LF in Yankee stadium you almost need another CF in LF to cover that ground. I doubt Cameron makes 10 let alone 12 million this year, he made 10 last year so I would assume he gets 8 or 9 this year.
I don’t think it would be redundant to get both players, good defense and decent power are always valuable commodities and Granderson has proven he can hit lefties in the past… The guy has also proven he can hit .303 for the season while hitting .170 against lefties, if he can at least hit lefties in the .2090 range he can be a perennial .300 hitter and 25+ HR guy.
As everyone else said Coke and Kennedy can’t hold this deal up it all comes down to Jackson and while I like Austin we are fooling ourselves if we think he will ever have 30 HR power and Granderson has that plus all the skills that are suppose to make Jackson good.
So many better things Yankees could be doing right now! Granderson not Yanks blowing their budget and giving up good prospects (Ajax and the mysterious Ian Kennedy)
This is not a budget buster at all. In fact, they needed two outfielders/DH and needed to stay under 18-20 M, and this really helps them.
Best case scenario, Jackson is as good as we can reasonably expect Curtis Granderson to be. He’ll be cheaper and under control for 6 years. Granderson costs, but is ready to play right now, and is under team control for 4 years.
I’m willing to trade Jackson for a long-term option in center, which Granderson is. While the lefty thing is concerning, he can always be sat against tougher lefties (all the more reason to bring back Eric Hinske).
I’m less crazy about giving up Ian Kennedy. The Dbacks are making out very well.
AAV of $8.6M for a platoon player? I’m not saying the Yanks can’t afford it but it seems odd that for $2-4M more, they can get Cameron without giving up any prospects.
Funny how beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion, the Tigers are doing better than Arizona here. Why would you rather have Edwin Jackson/Ian Kennedy over Max Scherzer? Edwin Jackson’s HR/9 rate going from a pitcher’s park to a hitter’s park? Edwin Jackson’s more expensive and closer to free agency.
If I’m Detroit, I’m thrilled if someone wants to give me Scherzer, AJax and Coke for Granderson. Now all the Tigers have to do is hang tight for 2010 until Magglio Ordonez comes off the books and they can avoid having to trade Miguel Cabrera for salary relief.
I friend of mine who is a Dbacks fan said it pretty well:
“I have more confidence in Scherzer’s future than Jackson’s or Kennedy’s, but, um, I’d love to have TWO good starting pitchers to replace one. Kennedy could have a real future in the NL West, and Josh Byrnes must have liked what he saw in Kennedy in the AFL (and I can see why — 28 Ks to 5 BBs in 29.2 innings).”
I’ve got a ton of faith in Ian Kennedy.
IPK is a 5th starter, maybe 4th. Maybe he’s turned the corner but, even if we assume he has, he doesn’t have Scherzer’s stuff. I’d never trade a guy with better stuff that has had some MLB success for a guy with worse stuff and no MLB success.
Edwin Jackson is, at best, the same as Scherzer.
I suppose if two nickels for a dime is what Byrnes and the D-Backs wanted to do, congrats to them.
One thing is for sure this deal helps Kennedy the most! In the AL East on the Yankees you aren’t quite sure of his role or abiltity but in the NL he should have a much better chance of being a good starter in the league while with us I didn’t see him as anything more than a pen piece.
In the American League, Kennedy is 5th-6th starter material. He may do better in the weak-sister league, but don’t be fooled. There will be other pitchers coming up who can do what IPK does, including MacAlister and Bleich.
Anything the Yanks can get for Kennedy is fine with me. He’s done enough to rebuild some of his trade value that I’m happy if we can unload him, especially because as you say, there are other similar pitchers coming up behind him.
I liked Kennedy but he’s not a big piece of the puzzle anymore. Jackson, however, is the only positional prospect in the organization that is close to MLB-ready. Seems odd to dump him now that he’s on the precipice of The Show.
I cant see giving up AJax so easily. As noted he is young for being in AAA. He may turn into Granderson and is several years younger than him. Give the kid a shot at center this year, put melky in left and run with it. Saves money which is what they want to do. Give pettite what he wants $$ wise, find some BP help and we will celebrate 28 next year. We dont need Granderson.
Granderson is left handed and can hit 30+ HRs in a year in a pitchers park, Jackson is right handed and probably will never hit more than 20 HRs in his career, and even if he gets to the 22 HR mark I doubt he comes close to 30 in a year. Granderson has more talent than Jackson and if Granderson can be taught to go back to the way he was hitting lefties a few years ago this trade makes a lot of sense!
Done deal, boys.
I just threw up in my mouth. Granderson = a guy whose defense in CF has declined over the past two years and that can’t hit LHP.
I just don’t see the appeal here.
His defense has declined? Where do you get that? Most defensive stats are not reliable over a single or even two year sample. The guy is a 4 win player who is a good defender and is coming to a ballpark that fits him pefectly. He hit 20 HR’s on the road last year in what was his worst season. I see the allure.
While I don’t purport to be smart enough to fully understand defensive metrics, I can’t just throw them out the window. Even assuming that defensive metrics are flawed, comparing two players at the same position would give us some sort of relationship, would it not?
According to UZR/150, Cameron is the superior defensive CF to Granderson.
Cameron is a 4-win player as well.
I’m not bashing Granderson as a giant floating turd in the punchbowl — he’s got some skills but also some very clear deficiences — but I will never be convinced that trading players for a guy when his near-fascimile is available via free agency is a great idea.
I understand where you are coming from fully. Honestly, I was never a huge Jackson fan, so I dont mind it from that end, plus I would say that Granderson is probably a better bet than Cameron going forward, plus this gives the Yankees 3 years of control at a reasonable price.
No. The sample is so small that a few incorrectly measured plays could mess the measure up. So it could mess it up in a good way for one player and a bad way for another.
Also lets not forget when Granderson got injured is when his defensive metrics started going down and ever since that point they have risen over the last year which to me indicates he is fully recovering from the injury and getting his defensive range back.
Oh, and FWIW, Dave Cameron gave the Yankees an A+ on the deal. Now, Cameron is not my favorite analyst, but it seems the sentiment is the Yankees won big time.
I saw that. You can’t throw out FanGraphs’ grade on the trade but invalidate my points when I cite FanGraphs (re: Joba vs. Buchholz trade value), especially when it comes from the same author. That’s the kind of selective argumentation that drove me from WW to this place in the first place.
Yeah, that’s why I included the disclaimer. Cameron does not even explain why he likes the deal except saying “he was #22 on my list,” which is part of the reason I dont like him. However, it does seem that even outside of Cameron, the general sentiment from non-Yankee fans that the Yanks won this deal.
I don’t see how others’ sentiment is relevant here so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I think it is relevant because sometimes as fans, we become attached to certain players and it skews our view. I get that you preferred Cameron, but I think that long-term, this was the better move. We shall see.
I like Cameron as well but Granderson is the better move for the long term as Mo has stated… Sure we could have had Cameron for 1 year probably 8-10 million but he would be hitting .250 and 8th in the lineup with a 24-25 HR limit and his stolen bases have all but gone away at this point. Granderson is the young athletic guy between the 2 and has the much better future ahead of him.
I get the love of Cameron especially when you give up no prospects but Cashman did good here! We kept the best lefty and only gave up a worse version of Granderson and Kennedy for the guy, I say we won pretty here!
I can live with this deal. It leaves us down a lefty in the pen though.
in 2009 Coke gave up more hits, homeruns, and rbis to lefties than righties. Wasn’t serving his purpose/role. Not to see he won’t be better at getting lefties out in the future, but theres better lefty options out there for our bullpen right now.
Marte. Although I hated the contract he signed, if what he flashed in the playoffs is to be believed, the Yanks didn’t need Coke anyway.
This also opens up spots in the pen for guys like Wilkin De La Rosa at some point, probably not this season unless it’s toward the September callup point but for the future.
My immediate thoughts:
Although it hurts to give up A-Jax, realistically, he is probably a Granderson type player at best at this point, and it may take him several years to reach that point (years that the Yankees may not want to wait with the core getting older). Although Granderson’s 2009 was not as good as his past seasons, he’s young and in his prime, and in the Yankee lineup he could return to the .850-.900 OPS player he was in 2007-2008.
Kennedy and Coke are both replaceable, so no huge loss there. I do like Cash’s insistence on holding on to Mike Dunn, because lefty relievers who can hit the mid-90′s are very rare, and he could be as good as or possibly better than Coke this season.
We can debate on whether you would have preferred to sign Cameron and keep A-Jax, but Granderson gives long-term security as an above-average centerfielder, plus his current contract is pretty reasonable. Maybe more complete thoughts in a post later.
I actually like Dunn a lot! He showed great velocity last year and his change up really surprised me on how good it was, he has a lot of control problems though but a lot more upside than Coke ever showed.
Maybe the thinking was the Yankees liked Heathcott better and by the time Granderson’s deal runs out Heathcott may be ready
Just my guess, but considering Heathcott is far enough away from MLB right now that neither Jackson nor Granderson is blocking his path, I’d doubt he entered the thought process here.
I agree with MJ Heathcott at this point has to be looked at as if he has no chance to make it to the pros, counting on someone that far away from the MLB is how you get in trouble.
I assume Curtis is hitting in the 2 hole and we dont sign damon now.
We then offer a 1 yr to Hideki.
I would think Damon makes more sense to bring back now. Granderson is starting CF, Damon starts as DH and Melky at LF. Whenev they want to give Posada, Jeter, Arod, etc a fielding break they move Damon into LF and sit Melky. This leaves the Yanks w/ only one low-end option at a time in the lineup.
Damon can’t hit 5th and his power numbers were all worse than Matsui’s last year! If they bring Damon back it will be in LF because it makes no sense to bring him back over Matsui at DH. Matsui had better power numbers across the board and when you take into consideration Damon hit his career high in HRs and probably won’t hit that many again it makes Matsui even more of the answer.
Jeter, SS
Granderson, CF
Tex, 1B
Arod, 3B
Matsui, DH
Posada, C
Cano, 2B
Swisher, RF
Melky, LF
I agree having Damon I think makes far more sense now, gives joe G. the flexibility with the DH spot he has been talking about and upgrades the yankees defense. What are thoughts on how moving from a pitchers park to a hitters park will affect curtis?
Wait, I’m confused. I’ve never espoused a fondness or a bias for Austin Jackson yet you dismiss my points as being influenced by some unspoken attachment to AJax yet all of your analysis of Joba Chamberlain is on the up-and-up despite being an open admirer of his on this and other blogs? What’s up with that?
I said we should agree to disagree but I didn’t insult your arguments by accusing you of holding bias.
I wasn’t referring to you in particular, nor did I dismiss your points. I said at many points in this thread that I get where you are coming from but disagree. My comment was meant to be a general statement about why it is sometimes helpful to look outside our own analysis for judgments. I did not intend to accuse you of anything, and if it came off that way, I apologize.
Fair enough. Thanks.
Any Yankee fan… Any baseball fan always holds some bias towards players in their own system because they spend so much time talking and researching these guys trying to figure out what they will be, so you end up knowing your guys a lot better than other teams players it;s only natural.
He’s not calling you bias so much as every baseball fan ever… I know I hold Montero more highly than non Yankee fans do!
Interesting deal.Though I’m not a Granderson fan, I can understand the deal very well.
Ian Kennedy is a limited guy, clealry his stuff may or may not convert above the minor league level, tough to tell.
Austin Jackson is probably 3 years away from being even close to Granderson if he ever develops.Frankly, I’ll miss Coke like I’ll miss Bruney.I hate trading good under 30 year old arms, especially off of bad finishes & seasons, they usually bounce back and break your heart.I remember Coke being death on lefties for months and then suddenly losing it a little, maybe from overuse when Marte was on the DL and Joe was using him every day, it seemed.
I think COke could end up a very, very good ML left-handed reliever, especially in that park.
On the other hand, Mike Dunn is probably ready and WIlkens DeLaRosa not far behind and both figure ot be hard throwing lefties.
They didn’t include Melky or Gardner so that suggests to me Damon might not be back now.Melky can play RF, and Gardner backs up Granderson and everyone else.
I can live with letting Coke go because of his inconsistency… At times he was a great pitcher and other times he couldn’t get an out it was his biggest problem, and his velocity had dipped a lot towards the end.
I guess the next step is to sign Mike Cameron to play CF. I know the strikeouts will be high but the defense will be outstanding.
Grandy Lf, Cameron Cf and Melky Rf with Swisher to DH.
I really would rather have Granderson play CF if we are giving up Kennedy and Jackson to get him, I mean I don’t see anyway in hell the Yankees traded for him and weren’t 100% sure he was the CF of the future.
Melky – Granderson – Swisher and Matsui to DH is the best combination of money and players IMO…
My first reaction to this trade was that we should have gotten a little more (like a prospect from Arizona).
However, with some thought, I LIKE THIS TRADE.
One item not yet brought up by anybody, and this cannot be confirmed or extrapolated by any stat head, is this….
Granderson has the potential to blossom in Yankee CF–far beyond what his recent history indicates.He has had years with outrageous extra base hit production, and game changing speed and defense. He is still to enter his prime years!
This is the type guy that can morph into a MVP year guy!!
40 HR, 85 extra base hits, 40 steals, 115 runs, great defense–leading to another Yankee WS
win!
The only bugaboo is his performance against LH pitching–get to work Yankee coaches!
Yes, I LIKE THIS TRADE.
40 HRs while hitting over .240 is not what I would be expecting to ever happen, he has some power but he sacraficed his OBP and AVG to hit 30 this year!
In Yankee stadium I would expect 25-23 HRs and a .280-.310 batting average with 20-25 stolen bases per year, he isn’t an MVP but he is more than a role player, this is a good trade but don’t expect the moon from Granderson because you will be disappointed when he doesn’t deliver.
No, I won’t be disappointed. I’d be very satisfied with Granderson’s average production of the last 3 or 4 years.
But, you should indulge your imagination a little bit.
Also, look up Joe Morgan’s lifetime stats.
Also, look up Zolio Versailles.
David Ortiz,too, could also provide some insight into the way the baseball world works sometimes, beyond all sabermetrician’s, and even seasoned scout’s, expectations.
David Ortiz is a terrible example since he took steroids and most statistics that jump with age are due to steroids… David didn’t just become that much better because he went to Boston!
It’s one thing to use imagination it’s quite another to make Granderson out to be a great player, he isn’t, he is simply a very good player.
The most extra base hits Granderson ever had was in 2007 when he had 84, the most Hrs he had in 1 year was this year when he had 30 and the most steals he has ever had in a season was 26 and that was in 2007 so I don’t see him out performing his career highs that much in his time with the Yankees.
OK, Mr. No-Imagination.
Let’s check back on this point in 2 years time.
I will remember, ’cause I will be watching him (Granderson).
I’ve seen enough Yankee busts thru the years so I know anything is possible. But….as I said, Granderson is just the kind of guy who, changes teams, enters his prime, and comes thru with a big yr, or two, that nobody would have predicted.
Well, I guess that you could say that I have brought it up into the realm of possibility today. Not a guarantee. Not a prediction. Just a chance his upside could come in the next 2, 3 or 4 years—with the Yankees.
Do you think that Cashman, and other Yankee brass is not dreaming of this upside blossoming, too?
A lot depends on how he fits in, improves OBP, etc. But by all accounts, he is a great guy–and is friends with Jeter. That’s a biggie!
So we will see, my skeptical friend.
I am not skeptical I am just not going to envision a guy topping his career high totals by double in some cases and especially not per year!
To me the realistic numbers are an average of .280-.310 depending on how he hits lefties, 25-32 HRs, 20-25 SB and 8-14 triples a year and playing average to above average D that would make him a great player for us!
Here’s an interesting point—-
I wonder, as of today, if Girardi plans to platoon Granderson (ie-bench him against LH)?
If he does, who will play CF, and hit against LH?
What about the playoffs? If Granderson does not improve his career numbers against LH, will he sit against them, as others have done?
Maybe it’s way too early to talk about this yet, as the 2010 Yankee team is not even put together yet.
But, you got to think that the yankee brass is thinking about this.
To me there is no way The Yankees would have made this trade if they didn’t plan on Granderson being the CF for the future and if they didn’t plan on him playing everyday. I think Kevin Long thinks he can have him back hitting .259+ again otherwise they wouldn’t have made the deal. Granderson doesn’t make a whole lot but he makes to much to be a platoon guy.
He has hit lefties before so you can’t say he can’t do it and I think that is the mind of the Yankees when making this trade, I can’t believe they would do the deal if they didn’t believe in his abilities in CF and with the bat against lefties.
He’ll hit lefties better because he can hit a HR witohut over swinging in Yankee Stadium.
I believe he will be a lot closer to his 2008 numbers than his 2009 numbers for sure.
Granderson’s career average over 162 games- 620 ABs, 169 H, 30 2B, 14 3B, 25 HRs, 66 BBs, 149 Ks, 16 SB, 4 CS, .272/.344/.484./828
I say he does better than that in HRs, walks and stolen bases while with the Yankees, the triples will probably go down some because he will be in a much smaller home park but he could be the kind of guy who hit’s 2nd in the lineup and is knocking on the door of 30 HRs every year with our stadium.
Even if he just gives his career average I would say this is a good trade that upgrades the team and keeps us young, athletic and winning now and in the future… Great trade by Cashman!
I agree.
The Yankees will control Granderson for the next 3 (4 with the team option) years. These will be Granderson’s prime career years! I think it’s very reasonable that his numbers could improve in these years, as I have been saying for the last few hours.
But upon even further thought, I will go a step further and now will EXPECT at least one year, in this time,for him to have MVP caliber numbers.
Granderson has, what is now known as, game changing skills.
Something was happening in Detroit, in the last 2 years, to explain his slight decline–which we will find out in time. This will be reversed in his Yankee years.
Remember that I had the courage to stand up here and say this, this early.
When one follows baseball for almost 50 years, one gets a sense about things.(said humbly though, not crowing–because surprises do happen).
I think that this will become known, in years hence, as one of the best Cashman trades!
We, as Yankees fans, can feel very good about things TODAY, and the coming few years.
We can sleep good tonight.
Granderson had a dip in his defense that came along with an injury he suffered the long term effect of which I think set him back even into the following year but I think a lot of this will hinge on how he handles lefties in a division with some really tough left handed pitchers but I think Long already had a say so in this trade as far saying whether he thought he could help or not.
I really think they totally redo his approach to play on the Yankees.
I see less Strikeouts and maybe less HR’s but close to a .300 average.He’ll see plenty of pitches in this line up.
More stolen bases and a higher on base percentage with 25 dingers.
I’m with Larry on not expecting 40 HRs anytime soon, I think if he hit 25-30 HRs in our lineup and can get his average in the .280-.300 area you are looking at one of the best CF in the league.