From Jon Heyman (SI):
The reason Girardi employs Hideki Matsui as his DH over Posada is that Girardi and Yankees higher-ups believe Matsui is a slightly better offensive player. Girardi was merely being diplomatic when he claimed the reason Mastui’s getting the starts at DH over Posada the games that Molina catches is because Masui is more accustomed to DHing. That was the p.c. answer, but not the right one.
So, according to Jon Heyman, the Yankees think Hideki Matsui is a “slightly better” offensive player than Jorge Posada. Now, while I don’t want to deviate from my primary point, I actually agree if we’re viewing this from a strictly offensive perspective. Obviously, Jorge is more valuable when you factor in his position, however, a comparison of the two is not the main point here. Rather, I’m interested in what it means for Matsui to be viewed as a better hitter than Posada by Joe Girardi and various other Yankee personnel.
If we are to believe Heyman and his assertion that the Yankees consider Matsui a “slightly better” offensive player than Posada, then, I ask, do the Yankees consider Johnny Damon a “slightly better” offensive player, as well? I doubt that they do given Posada’s switch-hitting prowess, plate patience, and power. Therefore, if the Yankees think Matsui is a better hitter than Posada, wouldn’t that mean that they’re more inclined to bring him back in 2010 rather than resign Johnny Damon? After all, one is “slightly better” than Posada and the other, in my opinion, isn’t really on that level, offensively. Clearly, I’m trying to glean some insights (probably too much) from Heyman’s comment.
Also, to clarify, I’m speaking in regards to the designated hitter role in 2010—not left field. As Bill Madden notes, the Yankees see Damon as a “liability in the outfield” (the correct viewpoint), meaning that they’re willing to bring back one of the two—Matsui or Damon—as the 2010 DH. If the Yankees truly believe that Matsui is a better run producer than Damon, wouldn’t he then have the advantage? Then again, Damon can roam the outfield in a pinch and, despite his poor fielding, that does provide some roster flexibility when trying to rest other players. It’s a tough call, really.
I actually think that Matsui is probably the best choice for the DH role, as he has been extremely successful there this season. That doesn’t necessarily mean the end for Damon, though. If the Yankees can’t find a suitable left fielder, perhaps a one-year deal for Damon wouldn’t be too bad. However, I doubt he’ll duplicate his numbers from this season and his defense will probably decline further. What do you think? Who would you like to see return if you had to choose between the two players? Or, perhaps you’d like to see someone else brought into the fold?
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25 Responses to Mastui > Posada > Damon?
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TIQ IQ
Its probably true that Matsui is a slightly better offensive player than Posada but its debatable. The reason Matsui should be the DH though in games Molina starts is that you can get Molina out of the game and have both Posada and Matsui in the game once Burnett is out of the game. Otherwise you’re pinch hitting Matsui for Molina and then having Cervilli in the game for any additional AB’s.
You hit it on the head.
Agreed. Heyman’s comment is unwarranted.
Chris,
You have not addressed the most important factor when comparing the two: durability. I believe that Matsui is the better option for the DH role, health permitting. However, Matsui’s health this year was an exception, rather than the rule. On the other hand, Damon has rarely missed time due to injury. There is not a huge difference in the production that you get from these two players.
Thus, I think it would be wise to sign Damon for 1 year and let Matsui walk. Damon becomes the primary DH and can fill in left field when Posada, Arod, Jeter, etc DH.
Further, if either of these players demands a multi-year deal, they can go find it elsewhere.
Hey Max—very true. I think both players are significant injury risks going forward, though Matsui’s knees are more problematic than anything Damon has going on. Damon rarely misses significant time with an injury, but over the past few years he’s been hurting for long stretches of time which have hampered his numbers. He doesn’t allow it to force him out of a ballgame, yet playing through minor back and leg issues will certainly take its toll on him (the Yankees were able to sit him towards the season’s end, but if the AL East is tighter next year, should that happen again, it could be a problem). However, perhaps being a DH will limit those injuries.
I really think it’s a tossup between the two, given what each offers. However, if you’re looking for offense from your DH, I think Matsui is the best fit. He offers no flexibility, though, as Tom stated, which may tip the scale in Damon’s favor.
I think you raise an important point that in addition to the flexibility that Damon offers, his offense could improve if he’s primarily a DH and is not battling the nagging injuries he always seems to suffer in the field.
I’ve kind of been wondering if Cashman will do the same thing he did with Mike Stanton and Chris Hammond, offering both a 1 year contract and signing whoever accepts first.
Many writers have said that Cashman will do that, which is a great idea in a depressed market.
Flexibility is so important to Cashman these days and Godzilla gives you zero flexibility, so I think he goes. Great, great hitter, but can’t play the field anymore and is spectacularly injury prone.
Matsui was still recovering from knee surgery this year and had to have them drained a couple times. He should be in much better shape next year. Matsui has said he can play the OF now but, Joe/Cash have made the right (in my opinion) decision in not playing him. He is much to valuable as our DH to risk in the field…this year, next year is a different story. Another thing about Johnny, he has been having leg troubles the last few years but, playing through it. We have Melky for LF right now.
Has everyone forgotten Nady? Is he worth resigning, healthy enough? Would he not be more cost effective then some of the other older players that have been bandied about on this site?
Why not let both Damon and Matsui go and use the money to sign Holliday?
Who would you use as the DH?
Swisher? Nady?
Or Miranda.
OK to both of you.
Outfield of;
Holliday-LF, Brett-CF, Melky-RF?
Brett-LF, BJ-CF, Melky-RF?
Crawford-LF, Brett-CF, Melky-RF?
Well I don’t want Swisher at DH if it means having Melky in RF because his numbers just don’t support him starting in RF especially not every day and along with Gardner in CF… Out of all those options I would take none of the above and go with Upton in CF through trade, Gardner in LF and Swisher in RF with Matsui at DH and Melky the 4th outfielder.
1. Jeter- SS
2. Cano- 2B
3. Tex- 1B
4. Arod- 3B
5. Matsui- DH
6. Posada- C
7. Swisher- RF
8. BJ Upton- CF
9. Gardner- LF
Bench
Melky
Frankie
Pena
Hinske
It actually puts Cano in the spot I have wanted him since he was called up and he is finally disciplined enough with the bat to hit in the 2nd whole and allow him to hit after Jeter and be on base for Tex and Arod to drive in.
I’m compelled to write about Miranda now, ha.
I personally love Mirandas bat in Yankee Stadium. I’m not sure if he is capable of playing lf or rf but I have heard that he can play the outfield. An outfield of CABRERA GARDNER SWISHER with MIRANDA playing a handful of games at the corners (possibly DH Miranda or Swisher some games) Damon/Matsui DH as well as Jorge getting more starts at DH
I would hate that idea!! Just to make sure that’s clear, any idea that has Miranda at regular DH and/or Melky starting in RF/LF is a terrible idea and will backfire horribly!
The real question is whether Holliday/Nady is an upgrade over Damon/Matsui. If we agree that it is, then you can certainly put an outfield/DH combination together that works.
The Rays will never let Crawford go. Upton would be poison in what appears to be a very harmonious Yankee clubhouse.
Upton poison? No one has ever called him a bad teammate and he is some what of a diva but so is almsot every ball player, just look at Jorge pout about not starting…
Wow tough decision for the Yanks. I would bring back one or the other in MATSUI or DAMON on a one year deal.
CABRERA LF
GARDNER CF
SWISHER RF
DAMON or MATSUI dh (DAMON can get a handful of starts in lf)
DAMON can play 30-40 games in lf which would allow MELKY to move over to CF or even RF and Johnny can DH another 100 games or so.
MATSUI however I believe is done in the OF and would strictly be a DH.
The decision will probably be made based on each players health status.
Also does anyone know if Juan Mranda can still play some rf or lf. I have watched him play in the minors and he can mash the ball. I think he deserves a shot to get SOME playing time but obviously that depends on if he can play some of.
Also do you think the YANKS can get a compensation pick if MATSUI and/or DAMON sign elsewhere?
Also do you think the YANKS can get a compensation pick if MATSUI and/or DAMON sign elsewhere?
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Good question?
I too, have seen him mash the ball this summer, he is also hitting leftys much better. Why not give him a chance in ST?
I have given this some more thought and decided that I am more for the Yankees re-signing Matsui this offseason as opposed to Damon… Damon is a great guy and great for the club house but watching Matsui’s at bats over Damon’s it’s clear who will be the better player at DH going forward for a year or two and with Matsui you have someone you know you can bat 5th behind Alex.
I’d let them both go, better a year early than a year too late.
I’d venture to put together a trade (including Melky, maybe Marte if he has any value and some Minor leaguers) to acquire Adam Dunn who I’d play either in LF/RF or DH for the same money as one of Matsui/Damon and frankly wouldn’t be afraid to play the Cuban first baseman and Shelly Duncan for 1 year at DH.I think they would combine as a platoon for 35 HR’s and the CUBAN might hit above .280.I’d also have Hinske and Hairston for additional offense if DUncan/Cuban failed but i doubt either would.
Then I’d use the additional money (Assuming Yankees aren’t cutting back even further) for the Cuban kid ot replace ANdy Pettitte after next season.
DOn’t think YAnkees aren’t going to be payroll conscious, they will be.
Melky, Marte and minor leaguers? Laughable!!! The only way the Nats trade Dunn is if they get a young major leaguer with a name or top top prospects who can develop names and play soon…