The all-time greatest
This is just something that crossed my mind watching Game 6 of the ALCS. When Mo came into the game in the 8th inning, Fox showed his career postseason numbers. For those who missed it, here they are.
| Postseason Pitching Statistics | ||||||||||||||||||
| SEASON | G | GS | CG | SHO | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | W | L | SV | HLD | BLSV | ERA | |
| 1995 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | – | 0.00 | |
| 1996 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14.1 | 10 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 10 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | – | 0.63 | |
| 1997 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2.0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | – | 4.50 | |
| 1998 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 13.1 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 11 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 0 | – | 0.00 | |
| 1999 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 12.1 | 9 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 9 | 2 | 0 | 6 | 0 | – | 0.00 | |
| 2000 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 15.2 | 10 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 0 | – | 1.72 | |
| 2001 | 11 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 16.0 | 12 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 14 | 2 | 1 | 5 | 0 | – | 1.13 | |
| 2002 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0.00 | |
| 2003 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 16.0 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 14 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0.56 | |
| 2004 | 9 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 12.2 | 8 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 8 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0.71 | |
| 2005 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3.0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 3.00 | |
| 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1.0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | – | 0.00 | |
| 2007 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4.2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | – | 0.00 | |
| 2009 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10.2 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 11 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0.84 | |
| Total | 84 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 128.0 | 79 | 13 | 11 | 2 | 19 | 104 | 8 | 1 | 37 | 0 | 0 | 0.77 | |
That’s almost 2 full seasons for a closer in the playoffs, and the numbers are almost hard to fathom. They’re better than his stellar regular season numbers. They have been logged facing teams with their season on the line, as opposed to regular season games in August facing teams that are out of playoff contention and have dinner plans. Most players who get enough opportunities in October will perform to the back of their baseball card. He’s actually been better when the pressure is highest, and again it’s a sample size almost double that of a full regular season.
We’re not talking about a player who is simply among the best of his generation, were talking about one whose accomplishments transcend time, and represent a gold standard that is unlikely to ever be broken. Like Babe Ruth or Cy Young. Check this out, ERA+ is a stat that adjusts for the ballpark and era a player played in. It’s a good way of putting a player’s career into some historical context. Here’s the All Time leaders in ERA+:
| Rank | Player (age) | Adjusted ERA+ | Throws |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1. | Mariano Rivera (39) | 202 | R |
| 2. | Pedro Martinez (37) | 154 | R |
| 3. | Lefty Grove+ | 148 | L |
| 4. | Trevor Hoffman (41) | 147 | R |
| Walter Johnson+ | 147 | R | |
| 6. | Dan Quisenberry | 146 | R |
| Ed Walsh+ | 146 | R | |
| Hoyt Wilhelm+ | 146 | R | |
| Joe Wood | 146 | R | |
| 10. | Roger Clemens | 143 | R |
Not only is he the best of all time, he’s roughly 1/3 better than the next player listed. And this is not just among his contemporaries, but among the greatest pitchers who ever lived.
A few years after Mo retires, there really should be a postseason or regular season award named after him. Maybe given out to the best postseason pitcher (starter or reliever) or create one for the best Playoff reliever each year. Given to someone who, for one year, has approached what Mariano Rivera did for his entire (now) 14 season career. ‘The Mariano Rivera Award for Best Performance by a Reliever’ sounds nice, no?
If I was the Yankees, I would also consider retiring his number on the day he announces his retirement. That’s a big deal, most players who’ve had their numbers retired by the team had the ceremony years after they left the game. The only other player who had his number retired on the day he retired was the very first number the Yankees retired, which of course was Lou Gehrig. Given that his #42 is already retired across Baseball for Jackie Robinson, and considering the player were talking about and his context in Baseball history, I think it would be appropriate.
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6 Responses to Honoring Mariano Rivera
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TIQ IQ
There have been a lot of great pitchers over the years but, I have never seen one come close to Mo’s consistency. His motion etc., is the same all the time, there are a lot of great pitchers that would’ve given anything to have his motion and C&C. The closest I have ever seen is Robin Roberts and that was a few years ago and the mound was higher.
Giving out an award for the best postseason pitcher in Mos’ name is a good idea.
Mo is the best reliever of all time, and not by a small margin. However, I think that you might be overrating him a bit Steve.
Mariano Rivera’s ERA+ is 202, which is mind-blowing. But he still has pitched only a little over 1200 innings in his career, including the postseason. Roger Clemens, on the other hand, pitched just over 5,000 innings including postseason play. Pedro, who has had a relatively small number of innings for a HOF starter, has pitched almost 3,000. Mike Mussina, a borderline HOFer, has 3,500. Even John Smoltz has 3,500, and he lost years to the bullpen.
My point is that although Mariano has been mind-blowingly good when he has pitched, he pitches less than you’d expect of other HOF pitchers. So while he is the greatest relief pitcher of all time, the superlative is reduced when comparing him to other pitchers. Relief pitcher isn’t a position, and therefore doesn’t deserve additional value because he’s comparatively better.
yea, closers throw far fewer innings and generally have lower ERAs than starters, but they are also much more volatile. case in point:
Brad Lidge ERA+ from 2004 on: 229, 184, 84, 131, 225, 59
To qualify for that title, you need at least 1000 innings under your belt, which means Mo has been absolutely metronomic–basically every year his ERA will be about half the league average. Unbelievable
Jonathan Papelbon’s career ERA+ is 254, but he has only thrown 298 innings. If he can keep that up for another 13 years or so, he would deserve it
Sure, season to season relievers experience volatility, but that is mostly due to small sample sizes. A few bad outings can ruin a pitcher’s ERA, and balls in play effects are more pronounced in a small sample. Case in point: Mo’s ERA almost doubled in 2007 despite much improved peripherals from 2006. Even starting pitchers experience wide fluctuations season to season due to balls in play.
Mariano has experienced a tremendous run as a relief pitcher, that few can even approach. Most of the Papelbons of the world will get injured or flame out before pitching 1,000 innings. But, my argument is really that you have to consider the total contribution of a pitcher by both playing time and how good they were during that playing time.
Mariano has been 50% better than Pedro. But Pedro has pitched 3,500 innings over basically the same time span. In order to compare the two, you have to assume that another pitcher pitches the innings to make up the difference. If that pitcher had an ERA+ of 100, the combined ERA+ of Mo and that pitcher over Pedro’s 3,000 innings is 134.
A 134 ERA+ is fantastic, but certainly not once-in-a-lifetime over 3,000 innings. Clemens did it over 5,000. Compare Clemens with Mariano and 4,000 innings of an average pitcher and you get an ERA+ of 120.
Now, that’s crude, because I didn’t include playoff numbers or some kind of leverage modifier, but I think it demonstrates the weakness of relief pitching versus starting pitching.
You’re misusing ERA+, which is by definition a percentage of a pitcher’s dominance with respect to league average. His career ERA+ of 202 means that he has been 102% more dominant than the average pitcher during his career. He hasn’t necessarily been 1/3rd better than the next greatest pitcher ever, as you say.
However, this doesn’t sully the fact that he’s among the greatest pitchers of all time. He has displayed over his career roughly 50% more dominant over the league than Pedro Martinez, who is still among the most dominant of all time.
Would this be one of the times stats confirm what your eyes see?
One thing I have seen this year is, Mo really looks tiered and his cutter is slower then normal. The thing is, his C&C is better then ever…most of the time (97%?), also he is going with the high hard inside one, once and a while.