This season, Melky Cabrera has been worth 0.7 WAR as a center fielder. He’s not hitting particularly well (wOBA is .326, second lowest in the AL) and his defense has been below average (UZR/150 of -6.9). He’s basically better than he was a year ago, but when you consider that Melky was worth 0.1 WAR last season (barely better than replacement), the upgrade we’ve seen this season isn’t very tremendous.
That brings me to Mike Cameron. In the offseason, the Yankees were said to be interested in acquiring Cameron from the Brewers. We heard a few trade ideas floating around, including a package that featured Melky Cabrera and Kei Igawa (while I’m not sure about Igawa, Melky always seemed like the centerpiece for any deal). However, the Yankees apparently wanted to keep Melky after his strong play in the Dominican League and they wondered if they had something with Brett Gardner. Plus, Cameron’s $10 million salary was a bit of a hurdle, especially after adding Andy Pettitte and Mark Teixeira (and CC and A.J.). For these reasons, Mike Cameron did not join the Yankees this winter and the team was relatively content with trying Melky and Gardner in 2009. Looking back on it, though, I wonder if it was the right decision.
Melky has been mediocre and Gardner has been solid (2 WAR), especially on the defensive side of things, yet Cameron has been stellar in center for Milwaukee. His .258/.358/.459 line and .354 wOBA would have been a significant upgrade over Melky or Gardner and his defense (7.7 UZR/150) is on par with Gardner’s, although Gardner has been better. Cameron’s speed has all but faded, though, as he has only stolen 6 bases on the season. All in all, because of his bat and his glove, Cameron has been a 3.9 WAR player, good for 5th best in baseball (at CF).
Knowing what you know now about Melky, in particular, Gardner and Cameron, would you have traded Melky for Cameron in the offseason (Gardner could have been a stolen base threat off the bench)? He seems like he would have provided the Yankees the best of both worlds—hitting and defense—and, although $10 million isn’t chump change, being a 4-win player has made him more than worth it. Imagine a lineup that featured him behind or in front of Cano in the playoffs—that would have been something.
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34 Responses to What if… Mike Cameron
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TIQ IQ
No way. $10M is ridiculous. Great move not doing it.
Based on his numbers and a dollars per win conversion, Cameron should actually get closer to $20 million (he’s worth nearly 4 wins, each win is worth roughly $4.5 million). $10 million is a pretty good deal for a player that can hit and play great defense.
I think the 10 mil is the key factor. If you took on that salary, you likely wouldn’t have signed Tex, so the answer in that case is a resounding “No”.
According to Cash, Tex was a last minute decision that he had to get special approval for. If they were already maxed out on payroll, he wouldn’t have even considered it.
He did consider it and was going to do it but the Brewers wouldn’t pay any of the contract for just Melky.
That was before they signed Tex. Tex signed just before X-Mas, the Cameron rumors were before then and were never seriously revisited after the Tex signing. Unless you consider “we’ll take him if you pay the salary” to be serious.
Yea, there were pretty much “rumblings” rather than anything serious between the two clubs. I still think a Cameron trade was contingent upon Pettitte, though.
I definitely think money was the main issue, but I don’t think it was a give and take with Tex, though, since reports indicate that the Yankees were still interested in Cameron after signing him. Instead, I think money was more of an issue in terms of Andy Pettitte. The money they could have used on Cameron was used on Andy, which is fine when you consider Andy’s year. Too bad they couldn’t figure out a way to squeeze him in.
You do know that Camron is 36 years old don’t you?
Next year he will slip a bit more, so I say (again) no way do I play Mike over Brett
That is about the same way I think of the Harrison/Pena deal. Once a player (most times) hits the mid 30s’ he slides, there are exceptions but not a lot of them. Pena (as does Brett) has talent this team can use rather then going with people that aren’t what they once were.
You do know Cameron is a free agent at the end of the year don’t you?
Next year he wouldn’t have been on the team it would have just added a for real starting CF with 25 HR power, if the Brewers would have paid some of the contract (which was the breaking point for the deal) then yes I would have traded Melky for Cameron I said so this offseason it would have made since for this year and then Gardner takes over CF next year and Austin comes up sometime after the All star break to be Gardner’s back up.
Exactly, Chris. Cameron is probably going to end up being a Type B free agent, too, meaning draft pick compensation. That only increases his value although I doubt he would turn down arbitration with the Brewers (or sign a deal before December 1st). The Brewers—or in this hypothetical case, the Yankees—would receive a supplemental pick if he were to turn down arb or sign before the 1st.
Yea, but it would have been a one year deal. Who cares how old he is next year?
Also, Brett Gardner would have stuck around if Melky were traded. They wouldn’t have sent Melky and Gardner to the Brewers for Cameron (Gardner’s role would be similar to his role this season). Cameron would have been a great stopgap for A-Jax, although this argument is based on primarily on hindsight.
Not really that was basically the argument I used at the time to get Cameron, at the time you were trading Melky who didn’t show as much potential as he has shown this year for a for sure starting CF with a good glove and an above average bat with plenty of power for that position. Just imagine, Melky hits 9th in the batting order with 11 HRs if Cameron is hitting 9th with 19 HRs to this point it’s an upgrade and I never really considered Gardner an everyday starter this year, his bat didn’t prove enough to me this year, and as of right now he still hasn’t proved he could bat above .260 as an everyday player let alone stay healthy. You could say with out Melky we wouldn’t have won 4 games on walk offs but I could say with Cameron we wouldn’t have needed to walk off in those games but we will never know. It worked out this way and it would have worked out the other way, either way it was a win win situation how it has turned out.
Hello the Yankees have the best record in baseball with Melky I don’t know why we are going over this old ground. Why bring in older players spending more money rather then build from within when possible.
The only way we would have got him was if the Brewers paid most of the contract so if that had happened we would have been trading a player with some potential but not an all star for a much better player currently for one season… It wouldn’t have been bad, it wouldn’t have traded away any prospects so what would you have to complain about? Either way the Yankees would have the best record in baseball we would just be stronger up the middle than we currently are, don’t even try to say because we have the best record we don’t have room to improve because every team does our holes just aren’t as big.
It might’ve been an awesome team, but not one I would have enjoyed watching. We can imagine the team with Cameron in center, Pujols at first, Mauer behind the plate, and CC, Johan, and Doc on the mound, but that’s what my XBox is for. I for one LOVE the fact that we are getting a good mix of contibution from old Yankee alumni, new Yankee prospects, and journeymen along with our 6 high priced FAs (ARod, T.ex, CC, AJ, Damon, Gojira)
Yeah because I don’t want to win a championship because you think it’s boring…
But the team is doing just fine. In fact, the Yankees are the best team in baseball. Cameron wouldn’t have put us in a better position for the postseason, because *there is no better position to be in*. And in the postseason, do you really think having a stronger 8- or 9-hole hitter is all that important?
If the Yankees win 104 games, perhaps they could have won 106-7 games with Cameron. You never know and in the AL East, having the best possible lineup is critical. Also, in the playoffs, when the Yankees are facing the best pitching staffs in baseball, having an 8 or 9-hole hitter that can hit 20+ HR seems like a good idea.
I actually think having a strong 8 and 9 hole is the most underrated part of baseball in the American league…. How many times does an inning end when an 8 or 9 guy grounds into a double play or pops up with runners in scoring position, well when we have Swisher hitting 8th and the duo of Melky/Gardner 9 we have one of the stronger line ups in baseball because for most night there is no give in spot for the pitcher mentally and adding Cameron to the 9th hole would give the team the best 9 hitter in baseball and the best line up in baseball heading into the playoffs which along witha strong bull pen and bench would give us a tremendous chance at number 27, I think we can win it either way, but you can’t deny the team would be better with a 25-30 HR hitter hitting 9th especially with Arod not always being fully charged because of the hip…
all things considered and the way the club has come together as a group i’m glad they didn’t get cameron.
I think they would have been fine chemistry wise, although you never know with that stuff. Who knows, maybe if they traded for Cameron the chemistry would have been the same (Cameron is good friends with A-Rod and CC Sabathia, already). Or, maybe not. It is one of those elements that you can’t really predict.
I think you have to be pretty happy with what Melky has done this year. The Yanks are stacked and having Melky as their 9-hole hitter is not that bad. No team in baseball has a longer line-up at some point you have to be content with that – do you not?
If they could have had a better team, I think it’s fair to discuss what could have been.
Yeah but in my opinion there comes a point when enough is enough. We already spend way more on payroll than any other team – to go much further above and beyond that for your pretty decent 9-hole hitter seems a little greedy (pigish).
Plus Melky is part of the team that came up through our system. You can’t have all hired guns. I understand if he was not holding his own but he manages to play well enough in my estimation to round out the order.
I definitely see what you’re saying. With regard to Melky, I’ll reserve my judgment until the end of September because he’s hitting well this week and perhaps he’ll salvage the final month of his season with some stellar play. I don’t think he’ll ever really amount to much beyond a 4th OF, but he and Gardner combined are a useful, homegrown duo in CF.
Melky has some problems with how his mechanics of his swing get off when he starts to swing out of his shoes for home runs all the time and as a result it also leads to a lot of weak ground balls he is topping off, but when he keeps his swing more level he can be a very good hitter. Maybe if Kevin Long will work with both Cano and Melky this off season in the Dominican that will help, Cano said he wants him top come down again this year and since Melky is his friend maybe he will join.
What is this idea that making your team stronger at a certain point isn’t a good idea because you are already good… So?… We have the best team in baseball but as it is the Phillies, Cardinals, Red Sox and Angels could all beat us in the playoffs and they could all shut out line up down, if you can improve do it! We had Pena which is basically a young Hairston but we got Hairston anyway because he is an upgrade.
Hmmm…. Would Robinson be hitting as well without Melky? Those two are best friends and support each other on and off the field.
I probably would have made the trade based on last years performance.
If a friend holds Cano’s talent level back he should be kicked off the team because it means he doesn’t try… Cano will hit above .300 every year of his career from here on out or it’s a huge disappointment bottom line.
Much obliged. Glad you see things proper now.
Crusader of Gardner in ’10.
I’ll buy that…
.275/.354/.400/.754 ain’t bad for a guy that T.O. Chris doesn’t seem to care for much.
I think he is a good player with great speed and the ability to hit .270 but I don’t think he is a god or going to be a perennial all star like a lot of you seem to think… The guy is the first guy with speed we have had in a long time so you all fall in love with him but he isn’t a star type player and for right now he has to many holes in his bat to hit .300 and be a lead off man for this teams future. I like him but I don’t love him. However I also don’t care if you think I am wrong and I also don’t care if you think it’s wrong for me to have an opinion that differs from you on a subject…
Relax Chris, no-one is getting on your case…and no one thinks he is a god. I also don’t ever think of him as anywhere near being a star, just a very function-able CF player, with talent this team can use.
I believe he is the best CF player available to us, without us having to give up a ransom.
I think he will be better next year then he has been this year. I have seen him play for the last few years, he always comes on stronger after one set-back. Ok, he lost the starting job to Melky (well deserved by Melky) then started to come back strong. Now he has another chance. And yes, I do believe he is much more valuable to this team, as a starter, then is Melky.
Besides, I thought you could take a little difference of opinion, I always enjoy reading the stuff you and the others write…you guys(and gals) are very intriguing.