I had a whole introduction prepared about Mr. Eiland and his strong reputation in the minors, but I am going to cut right to the chase. Joba Chamberlain seems to have trouble in the first inning of games. Chien-Ming Wang had either an injury that went unnoticed, mechanical issues that went unfixed, or both. Phil Hughes also has trouble maintaining consistent mechanics, an issue that repeatedly gets brought up but seemingly never dealt with. Damaso Marte went days on the roster with an injury, and Brian Bruney blamed his injury on his throwing schedule. The obvious question is, do you think the pitching coach can be blamed for these issues? If the team continues to pitch poorly, is Dave Eiland going to be the sacrifice to the baseball gods? Should he be? Chime in below.
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18 Responses to Discussion: Will Eiland Be First To Go?
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TIQ IQ
Shouldn’t we be firing Kevin Long for Teixeira’s slow start? Or for the inconsistency of the offense, especially with RISP?
There’s a sound reasoning behind suggesting firing ANY coach, including Girardi. You could say that Mike Harkey isn’t doing a good enough job judging whether a certain reliever is good to go on a given day. Or that Tony Pena isn’t doing a good job advising Girardi.
I don’t think the firing of a coach itself actually accomplishes anything. But if it causes players to think “Wow, if only we hadn’t been sucking so bad, he would still be on the team…”, then it might spur the team into action.
If a firing is done just to appease the fanbase, then I don’t think the Front Office is doing its job.
Just my two cents.
Agree that it should not be done to appease fans. But to do it to bring some accountability, if the team feels it is necessary, is a different story.
Point taken, Stefan, but the differences is that Tex does this EVERY year and the RISP issue is an individual mental makeup issue, not a swing issue so that doesn’t really fall into K-Long’s realm. In addition, Cano is hitting better, Melky is hitting better, and no one else is really below their career marks so there aren’t really any red flags with him (there WERE last year with Melky’s, A-Rod’s, and Cano’s struggles, but not this year).
Last year, the Yankees had patience with K-Long, believing that the red flags were not actually his fault or that he would quickly work to improve his craft and resolve any flaws in his repertoire. There are DEFINITELY red flags with Eiland these past two years – no one knows what actually goes on behind the scenes – maybe Eiland came out and said Wanger needs more time – there’s an issue and he was ignored. That being said, the red flags are there – the team ERA is much higher than it should be – injuries are occurring that maybe should have been recognized – and it’s possible that he just is not as in tune with his guys stuff as he should be. I can’t make that judgement b/c I don’t know exactly what’s going on in the process, but I think it’s a legitimate concern.
YES HE SHOULD. HE wasnt that good in the majors as a pitcher (not that that means much as a coach) but why not get the old braves/o’s pitching coach who is sitting at home doing nothing
I understand that there is a time and place to blame a coach and hold him responsible for lack of success. However, Marte, Wang, Dr. Phil, and Joba have all experienced at least minimal, to substantial big league success. So shouldn’t the onus fall on them to make a pitch in a big spot, get people out, do their job, and communicate to the training staff if they are hurt. As Torre always said after world series victories, “I just fill out the lineup card.” He obviously did more than this, but my point is the manager or pitching coach can’t bat or pitch. At some point, these relievers or starters need to suck it up and make a god damn pitch. That being said, I believe all the coaches are on the hot seat from the Steinbrenners and Cashman. 3rd place and .500 record at the all-star will probably spell a coaching change, no matter how deserving (or undeserving) it is.
So then coaches can never get blamed? I think that coaches should be accountable on something like inconsistent mechanics from a young player, or repetition of the same problem by a player, because that is exactly what the coaches are there to correct.
I believe that the Yankees have been very unfortunate. I think that once Posada, Wang, Molina, and Bruney come back that the Yankees will regain their greatness in the AL east.
I would only support firing a coach if they were of the Torre variety. Guys like Stottlemeyer added little, had fatalistic attitudes towards coaching (‘Can’t tell these guys how to pitch’) and it seemed their main qualification was being buddies with Torre.
That’s not the case anymore. Eliand, Long and the rest of the coaching staff all are reported to be very hard workers, so unless you want someone with a different philosophy there’s not much more he can do.
Another thing. How are we sure Joba, Hughes and the young bullpen guys are really all that good? None of them have a MLB track record to compare to before and after. If CC was never a slow starter and came here and pitched poorly, you might have something. But that’s not the case. AJ has been as advertised, Pettitte’s been good, Wang was coming off an injury, so that’s not Eiland’s fault. Everywhere I look, I just don’t see it.
Just throwing it out there. And Hughes has shown glimpses, and even more so with Joba. if a pitching coach is supposed to help a guy with his mechanics, and they keep betraying him, does any of the blame go to the coach? Or is allthe blame with the player? I’m not sure because it has never been clear to me what exactly the coaches do, which is why asked the question, to get people’s perceptions on this.
Coaching can only do so much. I’m not saying these players are perfect and don’t need the help of coaching. They do. But at the same time, they are making a ton of money to execute on the field. Hitters get in funks, pitchers lose their mechanics from time to time, and that’s when coaching is needed most. Maybe its just me, but I think the player needs to take the most responsibility when he is not doing well. The coach can help, but its up to these guys to get extra BP or addition bullpens/flat ground work in between starts. what do you guys think?
I agree 100%. It is up to the pitcher to consistently repeat mechanics that the coach taught, and for the coach to refine if the player starts to slip up. Blaming the coach for the failure of the player (despite the coach’s ostensibly best efforts) is like blaming the teacher for your son’s or daughter’s straight-F’s on the last report card. Sure, it might make you feel better, but it doesn’t exactly get to the heart of the problem.
Most of what you posted Peter, is right on!
As a great pitcher in the making (not really), I think I may have some insight. Pitchers (also hitters) have a problem changing the way they do things…when in a funk…it feels right, ergo, it must be alright!
One has to change the mind, then the act…then repetition. A lot of times it is easy to see but, very hard to change…also, very easy to fall back into the bad habit, when things go wrong.
It is the job of the coach to point out a problem and work with the player to correct it but, it’s up to the player to adjust…if he can’t…….!
So, yes it is a team effort, coach and player.
Nice, I’m glad you agree…So lets just say Girardi and Eiland are run out of town at the break? Who do you guys see taking over? A guy within like Scranton’s Miley or a baseball ambassador like Bobby V? Pitching coach?
Honestly, I never even thought of it!
My guess would be the AAA team coaches, they have a better handle on all the guys coming up A-Jax, Joba, Phil, IPK and even CMW. All the guys coming up say the coaches in AAA/AA etc., are all top notch guys…why not go with them?
mmmm – they already tried that with Eiland and there seems to be a learning curve that the Yanks can’t afford. I’d rather see a proven vet in there or at least a guy with more experience – I like Hershiser. In ’04, he dropped the Rangers’ runs allowed from 969 to 794 – pretty impressive. When he left his position, they jumped right back up – plus the guy’s just plain smart
I like that idea, Hershiser is someone I had not thought of…but, like I said; I really hadn’t thought of it.
Hershiser has a very good major league record, and a coaching record also. Players should have a lot of respect of him, know he has done it himself and understands their problems…as a winner.
The one guy to stay away from is Kaat, he is too old school…good ideas and smart but, not for these days.
What is Leo Mazzone doing?
Mazzone is a Fox Sports commentator. He had a terrible two years with Baltimore and he’s 60+ now. I’m not sure if he still has it.