Curt Schilling’s retirement announcement yesterday spawned a multitude of articles about his Hall of Fame case. Most of the articles believed that Curt belongs in the Hall, which caused me to start thinking about a similar pitcher who also retired this offseason: Mike Mussina.
Schilling was 216-146 in 20 seasons, with 83 CG, 20 SHO, 3261 IP, 3116 K’s, 711 BB’s, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, and a 127 ERA+. He never won a CY Young, but finished second on multiple occasions and made 6 all star teams. Of course, his calling card was his exceptional postseason pitching, going 11-2 in 133.1 IP while amassing a 2.23 ERA. The bloody sock game in Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS provides a classic defining moment for voters to focus upon.
Mussina has similar numbers, although his value lies more in his consistency than pure dominance. He was 270-153 in 18 seasons, with 57 CG, 23 SHO, 3562.7 IP, 2813 K’s, 785 BB’s, 3.68 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, and a 123 ERA+. He only has one second place Cy Young finish, but has 6 top 5′s, compared to 4 by Schilling, as well as 5 all star game appearances and 6 gold gloves. His postseason numbers are not great (7-9, 139.2 IP, 3.42 ERA), but they are far from pedestrian. His most memorable playoff performance was his dominant showing in relief of Roger Clemens in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS.
Personally, I think Schilling deservedly gets in, with his very good but unspectacular stats getting a boost from his playoff dominance and role in ending the curse. Mussina, on the other hand, is right on the fence. His numbers are slightly less impressive than Schilling’s, although his greater win total may sway some less educated voters. I think Moose gets in eventually, towards the end of his time on the ballot, in a very close vote.
What do you think? Which one, if either, gets in? Do they deserve to get in?
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7 Responses to Discussion: Schilling, Moose, and the Hall of Fame
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TIQ IQ
“Less educated voters”? Ouch.
In a vacuum the decision becomes much tougher than you think. You have much less of the “OMGZ TEH BLOODY SOCK!!!!111″ factor.
It’s not as clear as you think, Moshe. Schilling was good through his whole career, there’s no doubt, but his numbers apart from the early-to-mid-2000s are not all that impressive. Do we enshrine a baseball player just for being great for a few seasons?
Furthermore, how does a “borderline” HOFer have 54 more wins than a surefire guy but not make it in until the last few years of eligibility? At some point it’s not as simple as “wins are overrated”.
I’m afraid I just don’t buy it. And as time passes, I think that “mystique” surrounding Schilling is going to fade. If it wasn’t the Yankees he kept beating, would anyone care so much about Schilling?
You know that wins are a situation dependent stat. He beats Moose in pretty much every other area. He actually does not get enough credit from his ERA, bc he has given up historically low numbers of unearned runs.
In regard to the playoffs, Smoltz gets similar credit, and he never beat the Yankees. The thing with Schilling’s mystique is that the numbers actually support it. It wont fade.
I think schill should get in just off of the the big playoff wins he had. I still can’t believe we never bunted during the bloody sock game :(.
I’m with SWO-that’s a lot more wins. Mussina should get in at the same time or sooner than ‘bloody socks’.
Gotta disagree- Schill is better in pretty much every other regard.
I respectfully disagree. Moose’s ERA involved spending the whole of the homerun derby era in the AL East. Schilling spent a good chunk of his time in the NL. Moose’s win total and his “Indian Summer” last year will, I think, seal the deal, and the improvement of his relationship with the media at the tail end won’t hurt. Schilling is a great big-game pitcher and will probably get in, but I don’t think his mouth is making him many friends in the sportswriter ranks and I could easily see a few of the Mike Lupicas of the world delighting in watching him twist on the vine for a few years. Ultimately I think both get it, but I don’t see Schilling as the sort of lock you do, nor do I think Mussina’s chances are that much in doubt.
Mussina is a classic borderline candidate- plenty of wins, but not 300, never really had the feel of an all-time great pitcher, good ERA, but not exceptional. Moose is not going to have an easy time, not when his numbers are stacked up against the likes of Kevin Brown and you could go wither way. In regard to ERA, ERA+ is adjusted for league context. Schilling would also be a borderline case, except there was a period where it felt like we were watching an all-timer and he has the postseason pedigree. He also has the 2nd best K/BB ratio of all time. He is likely to get in.